Tool Pride

Well I assume it is human nature, ask a mule person about horses or a horse person about mules.

When I first moved to Idaho I would have said horses......after elk hunting here with some friends who have mules and horse.....I'd say "Does that mule of yours ride and pack?".........I'll use either if they are like me.....old, experenced...mild-mannered...:)
 
Ken,

"I truly hope my "gloats" weren't what caused this thread or bothered anyone."

Every time I think about your new lathe and bandsaw I get bothered... bothered that I don't have the same things! ;) And then, of course, I wish I had Vaughn's talent, or Stu's ingenuity with machines. I wish I had the time some people have. I wish I lived at the end of a dirt road in New Mexico. Or, as a really bad poet once said:

When in disgrace with fortune and men's eyes,
I all alone beweep my outcast state,
And trouble deaf Heaven with my bootless cries,
And look upon myself, and curse my fate,

Wishing me like to one more rich in hope,
Featur'd like him, like him with friends possess'd,
Desiring this man's art, and that man's scope,
With what I most enjoy contented least...


He goes on a while in the same vein, then decides things could be worse. In other words... there's no sense crying in my beer, I've got a lathe and bandsaw that let me do some stuff, which is way more than most people have. Given that, it gives me joy to hear about your good new tools... makes me think that someday I might have the funds to buy some and gain the skill to use them... ;)

So please, feel free to post away... it gives us all something to aspire to... ;)

Thanks,

Bill
 
Allen,
The Key point that I think has been missed, is that sometimes a person will 'buy in' to xyz brand's advertising, including the reviews in the magazines etc... and then when they Have xyz brand's item and someone else says something which they disagree with, they feel they need to 'defend the territory', after all, it is very much human nature to know that they did Not make a mistake. If xyz brand isn't the whiz-bang gadget of the moment, or if brand qrs comes out with a better whiz-bang mark eleventy-six, he doesn't want to 'lose', either face or money by having to re-tool. Odds are that qrs's gadget/tool is merely a fraction better (could be worse, too) so he invests heavily back into xyz's name recognition.

Thankfully we here at FWW are pretty immune to such hogwash. We have our favorite brands, and aren't shy to announce to our friends that we like or dislike something, but we are on the whole level headed enough to not get nasty about things.

I'm still in the 'buy the best you can afford' camp. I've not hit the lottery, or invested with smith-barney (how's that for brand recognition) and 'Earned' the be-all shop I would love to have. So I'm getting by with what I've got until I can do what I want/need to do around the shop and home. Would I buy certain tools differently with a different budget? Sure thing, but my friends and family here wouldn't care one way or the other in the end, so long as they knew I was 'happy' with my purchase. Besides, who do you think I'd pick on to help me learn about that qrs eleventy six in the first place?
 
Tolkien?:dunno:

I get your point Ned, and I understand the pride to an extent, I also like to think I made good decisions in my tool purchases, but I'm not going to fight over it.

If I go out and buy a Domino tomorrow and then come here to gloat about it then Tod Evans says "Its just an over glorified biscuit joiner" I wouldn't fight him about it, I'd just tell him "Shut up Tod, you're a jerk and I don't want to be your friend anymore", but there is absolutely no reason to overreact.
 
Tolkien?:dunno:

I get your point Ned, and I understand the pride to an extent, I also like to think I made good decisions in my tool purchases, ( Dear Allen, I'm sure you did!...S :thumb:)

If I go out and buy a Domino tomorrow and then come here to gloat about it then Tod Evans says "Its just an over glorified biscuit joiner" I wouldn't fight him about it, I'd just tell him "Shut up Tod, you're a jerk and I don't want to be your friend anymore", but there is absolutely no reason to overreact. ( :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Hey Allen, You crack me up!!!:rofl::rofl:It is great knowing that someone as skilled as Tod, and humble ( the H is silent...:rofl:) being here with his history, and his commitment to the forum COC won't say that, and if he ( was drunk) did, others would say... " Hey Tod... You Drunk?":D:rofl: Don't downgrade that man's tools like that!" And I can see him sayin, " Yo rite man, sosorry stuff jus slip out poorly."
Hi Allen, :wave:
Kidding aside, Tod is one of our greatest natural resources, as are you.
We need feel secure here with our victories and our mistakes. Ain't none of us that good or that bad, that tool rich or that tool poor. The tool you buy is the best for you til you realize you need a little more to do what you want. Maybe a sharper blade, or more horsepower, maybe a more accurate fence. The best tools don't make the best craftsman. Big expensive stuff is just that, big expensive stuff that can hurt you alot harder than smaller tools. I believe one should learn to use the tools they buy and get better tools as they realize the need. Most of you guys can probably afford much better tools than I have.
There is a joy here, with the wood, we can't get with the spouse, or the kids. When we make that wood dance with whatever tools we have the entire forum can rejoice. That I think is a good goal.
Shaz
 
Well put Shaz. And I too admire Tod, he has helped me a lot. Even though he never told me exactly what tools to buy, his advice helped me make better purchasing decisions.

Thats why it would be sad if he insulted my tools, I'd hate to have to let him go.:rofl:

I don't post any of my work, because I haven't built anything that I am particularly proud of. Shoot, I don't even take pictures of most of the stuff, no point in taken snapshots of hollow core doors.

That said, I'd be much more likely to place my emotional attachment to my work than my tools. Even then, if somebody said my work sucked, I'd just strive to do better work. But not before I spit on all his cast iron surfaces.
;)
 
This discussion reminds me of one I got into on a different board, no not that one, about a guy who was guying a new PM tablesaw, he had a choice of a 3 Hp or a 5 Hp, otherwise exactly the same saw. His shop was wired to handle the 5 Hp, and he even had the right breaker, so there was no electrical upgraded needed. The difference in price was something like 5% of the total price, IIRC something like $150 on a $3000 price tag :huh:

He was asking which one he should buy.

He was a high end hobbyist, and was soon to retire, and was wanting to buy his last tablesaw, I said "what the heck, if you got the extra $150, get the 5 Hp saw" well I got an ear full from all kinds of guys saying they had NEVER bogged down their 3 Hp saw, not even close, and that the 5 Hp was over kill etc.......

I basically said "So what.....? If the guy can afford it, and wants it, why not?" I asked to be given a technical reason why the 5 Hp was a "Bad Choice" and the only thing they came back with was that it was "Over kill and not needed" :rolleyes: :dunno:

It was an odd thing, sure I understand that this top level hobbyist was most likely never to tax this big 5 Hp saw, but in that way, would it not last forever?

This was a really good eye opener to people taking a stance based on what they personally purchased, and defending it even in the face of common sense, after all, over say 20 years of use, what does that extra $150 bucks amount to? right about 20 cents a day, in a world where people pay $4 for a mocha-choco-super-frappa-chino-latte.........? :dunno: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :wave:
 
Go into a small town cafe and ask which is best, green (John Deere) or red (Case IH).

I had to go back and find Jonathan's original post.... I was about to wade in swinging my opinions around until I figured out he meant tractors, not salsa.....:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
All I know is if you don't have an orange tablesaw to go with your green shop carpet, then there's no way you're as cool as me. :cool: :rofl:
 
Come on Vaughn everybody knows that green sauce (Salsa Verde) is the better sauce.

To Stu, that is exactly the type of irrationality that I am referring to, but to play devils advocate, that 5Hp motor will cost more as far as the electric bill goes, though I doubt it would make much of a difference for a hobbyist who isn't running it all day every day.
 
Come on Vaughn everybody knows that green sauce (Salsa Verde) is the better sauce...
You're right...for a true sauce (like on enchiladas), verde is happenin'. I was thinking chips 'n dip salsa. Chopped up tomatoes and stuff. (But even then, I like it with green chile, come to think of it.)
 
First, I must comment, I'm Shocked............ SHOCKED that Vaughn BUYS Salsa in a bottle........ :eek: :eek: :eek:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Allen, the electricity usage was brought up, but again, the difference, as some electrical engineer guy pointed out, would have been about the same as a donut with that Mocha-loca-super-frapa-latte-chino :D

..........To Mr Stu Ablett. I didn't say SOME Festool and Mini Max owners, but that is certainly what I meant. And I also didn't mean to make it out to seem as if they were the only culprits.
Thanks for clearing that up Allen, all I have to go on is what you write.

...........But it was just as much if not more based on quite a few other threads I've read in the past few days where a topic wouldn't even be about anything to do with Festool at all yet somebody would slip in an anti Festool comment that would be almost immediately followed by the Festool defense force and the argument would ensue in a topic that was completely unrelated...........

Allen, if you are talking about this forum, Family Woodworking, (and I'm not sure you are..:dunno:) I'd like to see the examples, I've not noticed them, but I don't read EVERY post here.

.............It just bothers me that I have to ask my questions like as if I was asking them to a bunch of little kids, being careful not to say anything that might get everybody riled up, because even though WWing forums are made up of mostly adults, the attitudes of the grand majority of posters are juvenile at best............

Again, are you referring to Family Woodworking here? :huh:

If you are, those are rather strong words to say......

"Grand majority of posters are juvenile at best"

.......I do not think you are talking about Family Woodworking, I certainly HOPE you are not, but again, all I have to go on is what you have written.

Just wondering? :wave:
 
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First, I must comment, I'm Shocked............ SHOCKED that Vaughn BUYS Salsa in a bottle........ :eek: :eek: :eek:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Actually, I don't eat a lot of "chips & dips" salsa...most of 'em have raw onions in them, and me and raw onions don't get along...but what I do eat is usually store-bought local stuff on my trips back to New Mexico. (Not your regular Pace picante sauce.) ;) It's just not worth the work making a batch for just myself, and LOML isn't any help eating it.

Same thing with green chile dishes like enchiladas. I seldom make them at home, since it'd just be for myself. Plus, I have to import the chile...the stuff out here in SoCal just doesn't compare flavor-wise. (I'm not into fire-breathing hot for hot's sake. I like some flavor to be involved, too. Anyone who's eaten New Mexico chile knows what I'm talking about. :) I don't really like most "California style" Mexican food, so I tend to wait for my trips back home, then I pig out on the stuff.

Now...what was this thread about again? :p
 
.

Now...what was this thread about again? :p

tools........a means to an end.
when folks think of `em as anything else it`s a pitty.

kinda like the 120#-5`-2" accountant who has saved his coins and marches his whimpy little butt down to the local harley dealer and plunks down his hard earned money for a wide glide..........he ain`t a biker no matter how he views himself now.

try to remember it`s all about what you make not the tools you use to make it;)........sure there are always bigger-n-better tools for the job but untill you need `em (or just want to blow some money) keep building with what ya` got......it`s all about making the best "stuff" that you`re capable of.

each and every one of us as long as we keep producing will get better at what we`re making...be it doors or objects de art. that`s the beauty and the curse of woodworkin`.....ya` gotta do it to get better and the better ya` get the more you realize that you don`t know squat.:eek:
 
"I don't really like most "California style" Mexican food, so I tend to wait for my trips back home, then I pig out on the stuff."

I hear ya, Vaughn. California Mexican is more than a little wimpy. I like the Arizonan/New Mexico variety much better. I do pig out when I get home.

Now the MidWestern version of Mexican food is...... Well, this is a family forum and I cannot render an accurate adjective and not offend someone! The most benign thing I can think of is "YUCK!" :eek:

Headed home next August....YESS!
 
:huh: OK, where was this going?

Should anyone ever ask me what the definition of tangent is I might consider pointing them to this thread! :rofl::rofl:

First point to get out of the way, I don't eat salsa (or nearly any Mexican food) at all. Mexican food and I always seem to have a.....uh....shall we say "short term" relationship.:(:doh:

I'm one of those that the major tool companies really dislike as I tend to have no brand loyalty what-so-ever. (Sorry Steve, this also tends to spill over into my automobile buying). Were you to tour my shop you would find PC, Delta, Jet, Rikon, DeWalt, Craftsman, HF, Hitachi, DeVilbiss, Hegner, Ryobi, Makita, Milwaukee, Kenmore (an important tool that serves as the repository for a large and varied selection of cold beverages:D), and probably a few others that I can't remember. I try to always buy the best I can afford at the time that (and here's the definitive point) best suits my needs and skills.

Some of my tools are near-pro level (Jet Cabinet saw, Hegner scrollsaw), but most are consumer/hobbyist level because I just can't justify something more expensive. (My TS budget was $800 and I came very close to buying a Delta contractor saw but stumbled upon the 1 year old Jet at an auction. A little overkill, perhaps, but too good a deal to pass up.):p

If I am very fortunate I get to spend about 10 - 12 hours a week in the shop. Things like my Rikon BS is all the saw I need and then some. It's now about 16 months old and probably has less than 100 hours use. It will serve me for many years at that rate. If I were running a full time shop I certainly would have looked at MM and a few others at that level.:rolleyes: I strongly believe that your needs should have more to do with determining the tool you buy than brand loyalty.

So, Allen et. al., If you ever sense that I am leaning toward being a brand zealot please please please call me on it and slap some sense into me.:eek: I, too, am a veteran of other forums where such behavior is tolerated and I have stopped visiting those sites. My time's too valuable.

Now, where did I put my chips?:wave:
 
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