LN Plane tarnish

Marty Walsh

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Does anyone have any suggestions on how to keep my LN planes from making such a mess of my hands?

This is after a few (too many) hours of using my 60 1/2R:

DSCN7135.jpg

At first, I thought it was the paint coming off the top of the plane, so the other night I took the plane apart, soaked the base in lacquer thinners, and stripped off all the paint from the outer edges. That didn't help...:doh:

Once I realized it was the brass that was tarnishing my hand, I tried to wax the brass. All that did was make a different colored mess in my hand:

DSCN7136.jpg

So, is this a problems others have? Short of shooting the brass with lacquer, which I'm not excited to do, does anyone have any suggestions/ideas? Or is this just an added benefit of "dragging my knuckles"... :rolleyes:

Thanks...
- Marty -
 
You're sure it coming from the brass? What kind of wood are you planing? I've never gotten that unless I'm planing something with tannin in it like oak, mahogany etc., but my hands look just like that from the tannin.
 
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Marty, body chemistry is a funny thing. Some will have that reaction with brass, some will have a similar reaction with aluminum, etc. If I stay in constant contact w/brass long enough, it will oxidize on my hands as well. Lacquering it will only prevent it until the lacquer wears off. Sorry, but I don't have a good solution for you.
 
Doug's suggestion hits with me. That is exactly what my hands look like after a day handling Oak in warm weather. Obviously for me warm weather is a bit of a rarity though:D

If its not the timber, is it worth trying some kind of barrier cream on your hands?? I know you need to make sure that they don't end up greasy but it may be worth a try.
 
You're sure it coming from the brass? What kind of wood are you planing? I've never gotten that unless I'm planing something with tannin in it like oak, mahogany etc., but my hands look just like that from the tannin.

Doug,

I'm taking a break from more planing, and thought I'd take a minute to update this thread. I paid more careful attention to what parts of the plane I was grasping and now realize it's NOT the brass that's doing me in. The parts of my hand that are, once again, turning that lovely shade of black are only in contact with the iron on the top of the plane.

Interestingly enough, I'm planing Mahagony. Perhaps you're onto something...tannin, huh? :huh:

Marty, body chemistry is a funny thing. Some will have that reaction with brass, some will have a similar reaction with aluminum, etc. If I stay in constant contact w/brass long enough, it will oxidize on my hands as well. Lacquering it will only prevent it until the lacquer wears off. Sorry, but I don't have a good solution for you.


Billy,

I figured lacquer was only a temporary solution at best, which is why I didn't want to try it. But now I'm wondering if I would have wasted my time, give what Doug says about tannin...:dunno:

Oh well, I just have to clean my hands often until I'm done with this phase of the project.

Thanks guys! :thumb:
- Marty -
 
Ian,

I'm also thinking that Doug's hit on it.

What I find interesting though, is that the only parts of my hands that are affected are those that are in direct, prolonged contact with the iron of the plane. My left hand, which is constantly holding the parts being planed, is completely clean.

Must be some weird chemistry with the tannin and iron...:dunno:

Oh well...
- Marty -
 
If it's sort of a dark purplish brown, it's probably the tannin. The bad news is that it dyes your skin so you're stuck with it for a couple of days. I find it worse with red oak, but mahogany has it too and I know there are other woods escaping me at the moment.
 
...Must be some weird chemistry with the tannin and iron...:dunno....

Marty -

Tannin is very strong in Oak and present in lots of different timbers. I also use Western Red Cedar which has some tannin but nowhere near the quantity in the Oak. Tannic Acid is the reason that it is important/vital not to use standard steel (ferrous) fitiings with Oak/Cedar. The chemical reaction makes a nasty stain and corrodes the steel real fast. On wood the staining can usually be dealt with by applying some Oxalic Acid but on fingertips you have to wait for erosion to take its course:)

Interesting to do a quick google on tannic acid and iron - this was one of the easier to understand results http://www.phytochemicals.info/phytochemicals/tannic-acid.php)

Oh, and its probably worth making sure that you clean the planes well at the end of the session. Processing lots of Oak is one of the reasons that none of the cast iron tables on my machines are nice and shiny (coffee cups are some of the other reasons).:eek::doh:
 
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...What I find interesting though, is that the only parts of my hands that are affected are those that are in direct, prolonged contact with the iron of the plane. My left hand, which is constantly holding the parts being planed, is completely clean.

Must be some weird chemistry with the tannin and iron...

Marty,
Think about what happens when wet iron gets on red oak. ...Or if you use a non-galvanized nail on oak. The oak turns black, right?

What's happening here is that small - minute, even - amounts of iron from the plane are being oxidized by the sweat on your hand, and the tannin in the oak is reacting to it.

The other hand - that's only holding the oak steady - isn't in contact with the iron, so there's no reaction.
 
If it's sort of a dark purplish brown, it's probably the tannin. The bad news is that it dyes your skin so you're stuck with it for a couple of days. I find it worse with red oak, but mahogany has it too and I know there are other woods escaping me at the moment.


Doug,

It's black...pure black. And you're right about it dying the skin! Thinners don't make a difference, nor does mineral spirits, not Gojo hand cleaner, nothing! I found out yesterday (by accident) that the only thing that removes it completely is my stationary belt sander! :eek:

(The brown in the second picture above is what I'm guessin to be Mahagony sawdust attaching itself to the wax I was liberally applying to the plane. :huh:)

Tannin is very strong in Oak and present in lots of different timbers. I also use Western Red Cedar which has some tannin but nowhere near the quantity in the Oak. Tannic Acid is the reason that it is important/vital not to use standard steel (ferrous) fitiings with Oak/Cedar. The chemical reaction makes a nasty stain and corrodes the steel real fast. On wood the staining can usually be dealt with by applying some Oxalic Acid but on fingertips you have to wait for erosion to take its course:)

Interesting to do a quick google on tannic acid and iron - this was one of the easier to understand results http://www.phytochemicals.info/phytochemicals/tannic-acid.php)

Oh, and its probably worth making sure that you clean the planes well at the end of the session. Processing lots of Oak is one of the reasons that none of the cast iron tables on my machines are nice and shiny (coffee cups are some of the other reasons).:eek::doh:

Ian,

Thanks for the link...and the reassurance that I'm stuck with this lovely black patina on my fingertips! :rolleyes:

As for the plane, I've made a point of cleaning it after each use...but that's not unique to this particular task. I clean (and wax) them after I'm done them all the time! :thumb:

Marty,
Think about what happens when wet iron gets on red oak. ...Or if you use a non-galvanized nail on oak. The oak turns black, right?

What's happening here is that small - minute, even - amounts of iron from the plane are being oxidized by the sweat on your hand, and the tannin in the oak is reacting to it.

The other hand - that's only holding the oak steady - isn't in contact with the iron, so there's no reaction.

Jim,

Mahagony, not oak...but yup, I think that's what I'm encountering. An interesting lesson...but apparently one I can't do a thing about expect accept it.


Thanks everyone...

The black-finger-tipped-guy...
- Marty -
 
Marty,
I am really glad you posted this. My fingers will look exactly the same after planing, but only sometimes. And although I have a LN block plane, I get it from using rosewood handled old Stanleys.

I rarely use oak, so it's not limited to oak. I have gotten it from cherry.

So I dunno what precisely is the cause, but it does wear off in a few days.

Ken
 
Chemistry, shmemistry!
The only real solution is to send me your LN 60-1/2, and i'll send you my Stanley version. The nickle plating and black paint should leave your hands plenty clean.
I'd make that sacrifice - for a fellow woodworker.
Paul Hubbman
 
Chemistry, shmemistry!
The only real solution is to send me your LN 60-1/2, and i'll send you my Stanley version. The nickle plating and black paint should leave your hands plenty clean.
I'd make that sacrifice - for a fellow woodworker.
Paul Hubbman


Paul,

That's quite a generous offer...but I think I'll just deal with the mess on my hands...:dunno:


Marty

was flipping through the new LV catalog last night, saw this and thought of you

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=10256&cat=1,42207

Jay

Jay,

Thanks for thinking about my poor hands...:rolleyes:

I've tried a similar product in the past...Liquid Glove...when I was dyeing mortar for a brick job I was doing. I don't think it's really worth it...as it only sort of/kind of works.

I'll just get dirty hands and be careful not to transfer any to the project I'm working on.

Thanks again...
- Marty -
 
Black stain on fingers

Thank you marty for posting about the black fingers and hands.

I have been having the exact same problem while planing oak with my shoulder plane.
I could not figure it out at first, thinking maybe the lead from marking with the pencil. I began wiping down different tools with a white rag hoping to narrow it down. I finally came to the conclusion it was from heavily using the shoulder plane.

To help clean the hands... I have used "Ajax cleanser" on a cloth towel backed with plywood, and briskly rubbing my fingers/hands pressing to remove the black stain. (it works in a few minutes).

THANK YOU ALL for your replies about the tannin in the oak. I have received a great education tonight.

Warm Regards,
Bill latham
 
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