Push or Pull: what dovetail saw do you use?

For those who tackle the hand cut dovetail approach, can you describe the type of saw you use and why you use it? As I am trying to learn to cut dovetails, I have a Japanese Dozuki which my instructor uses and I am not sure I like it--but I do not have a push saw so have no side by side comparison.

I would appreciate hearing what you use and why you selected it.

Thanks,

Ken

I'm just learning also and am using a dozuki. I get frustrated when i tend to "crowd" my work. I get too close to it instead of standing where it works best for my arm motion. Particularly with the dozuki, i find it's best for me if the work is down lower than what i've been used to. I'm not totally comfortable with it yet, but i attibute that to my learning curve. I find that the saw is capable of much more exacting work than i am.

Both styles of saw have evolved over hundreds of years with highly skilled craftsmen. Both should work fine. Part of my decision to go with the Japanese style of saw was simply economic. for $40 i could get a decent japanese saw with a comfortable grip - sharp as a razor. At the time, i couldn't seem to find a western saw of comparable quality for anywhere near the price. Crown makes their "gent" saw with a back blade, but it's got a grip i can't get comfortable with for push strokes.

Last spring i found an old 12" Disston back saw with a good flat blade. It was a bit long in the tooth, but i've been cleaning it up and will resharpen it soon so that i can give it a whirl. I'm still committed to working with the dozuki - mostly because i'm getting decent results and am getting better as i go. Now i'm wondering how i can control a western style saw as well as i can control the pull stroke on the dozuki. We'll see.

There's been a lot frustration with both types of saws, mostly because hand joinery is a skill that doesn't lend itself well to the weekend warrior. But, fine results can be had with either type of saw - I'm sure it's more a matter of practice than anything else.

Paul Hubbman

ken, i use both...one of my favorites is an old cheap gents saw from the borg with the blade turned around to cut on the pull stroke and the set of the teeth flattened in a vice......not very romantic or even classy but very functional..

Dozuki Z saw. Blade has 25 TPI, a 9-1/2'' cutting edge and is 0.3mm thick. Works well for me. Rated Best Overall by FWW. About $40 from Woodcraft or Rockler.

P.s. It's the only pull saw I've got besides my coping saw.

I use a Japanese saw but one thing I don't like about Japanese saws is that the sawdust falls on the line. With a western saw, the sawdust is ejected on the far side of the work. I have to keep blowing on the line to see it.

Mike

I use a Japanese Pull saw, one of the Razor saw brands, hey, I'm in Japan after all

I'd like to try a good western style dovetail saw at some point.

Stuart Ablett said:

...I'd like to try a good western style dovetail saw at some point.

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For some reason, that term evokes a picture of a small saw, with carvings of horses and cowboys on the handle, and a couple of latigo leather strings hanging down the side. Sort of the handsaw equivalent of the Daisy Red Ryder BB gun.

Then of course there's Roy Rogers and Dale Evans singing in the background...

Happy tails to you, 'till we meet again.
Some tails are sloppy ones,
Others tight as glue.
It's the way you cut the tail that counts,
Here's a happy one for you.

Happy tails to you
Until we meet again
Happy trails to you
Keep smiling until then
Who cares about mistakes when we're together?
Just grab another board and make the next one better.
Happy tails to you, until we meet again.

Yee-Haw! Saw-em Cowboy!

I usually grab which ever one is closer at the time, though I tend to gravitate to the pull saw...

Vaughn McMillan said:

For some reason, that term evokes a picture of a small saw, with carvings of horses and cowboys on the handle, and a couple of latigo leather strings hanging down the side. Sort of the handsaw equivalent of the Daisy Red Ryder BB gun.

Then of course there's Roy Rogers and Dale Evans singing in the background...

Happy tails to you, 'till we meet again.
Some tails are sloppy ones,
Others tight as glue.
It's the way you cut the tail that counts,
Here's a happy one for you.

Happy tails to you
Until we meet again
Happy trails to you
Keep smiling until then
Who cares about mistakes when we're together?
Just grab another board and make the next one better.
Happy tails to you, until we meet again.

Yee-Haw! Saw-em Cowboy!

Click to expand...

hey vaughn........got anymore of whatever you`re smokin`

I use a cheap old Gents saw that cost something like 20 bucks brand new. I found even this cheapo saw tracks the line pretty well...just as long as I don't try to steer it. I know that sounds dumb, but I swear when I just put the saw on the line and let it fly back and forth, it cuts just fine. When I try to influence it, I end up with problems.

One thing I want to do before I die is to try to make hand cut dovetails the most least expensive way possible. Someday I am going to use a hacksaw and a sharpened screwdriver and make a set of dovetails just to prove to other woodworkers that you don't need a 125 dollar dovetail saw to make these prestigious joints. Its a skill and not the tools...

Great replies.

I have a pdf file from the FWW archives (best $5 per month I have spent in a while - for total access to the archives not for the single pdf) that describes "souping up" your backsaw to make it better for cutting dovetails. It is by Mario Rodriguez from Nov/Dec 1996.

In it he advocates reducing the set and ELIMINATING EVERY OTHER TOOTH. Does this make sense? I believe I have seen that more tpi are better.

I have an old (and rusty) Craftsman backsaw and I thought I would try his reco and see what happens. What say you?

Ken

I started out using a western saw, but have personally found the japanese saw to easier to start and producing nicer cuts. However, the handle did take some getting used to. One thing that I have learned that nothing helps more than practice. In fact I practice dovetails when I wake up early and need to slowly wake up; very therapeutic!

hi ken

i started out with a gents saw , didn't like it..... so i went to a japanese saw. i like it alot , but the first DT's i goofed and cut the pin board backwards after alot of carefull setup i might add !!

well that just frosted me good so ........... i went and got a new saw (well sort of)

i like this one much better than my japanese saw

I don't cut many dovetails but, when I do, I use a Japanese pull saw that I purchased from Lee Valley.

I tend to use a LN backsaw, cuts nice, handle is real comfy.

Travis has a point though, when properly sharpened, the cheapest saw around will do the job as well as mine will - though I'll maintain that I wouldn't enjoy it as much

John Downey said:

I tend to use a LN backsaw, cuts nice, handle is real comfy.

Travis has a point though, when properly sharpened, the cheapest saw around will do the job as well as mine will - though I'll maintain that I wouldn't enjoy it as much

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I think I was very fortunate. I had a grandfather that tought me a lot about woodworking without saying a word. How did he do that? Well he produced the most beautioful wooden things, segmented bowls to chilrens toys that won awards and contests..yet he had the worst shop and worst tools (craftsman mostly).

He was a tall man, and yet had a shop in the basement of his 100 year old apartment building. He ducked the entire time he was in his shop. The wiring was horrendous and it was dark, wet and moldy down there. Yet he built nice things.

The lesson was clear...no amount of money will buy talent and skill. I am still working on getting those two things, but I feel just knowing that I need to obtain those two things makes me a good woodworker. Someday I will upgrade to nice tools, but I feel too many people either..

A. Give up on woodworking because they think they need expensive tooling to make something tangable

B. Spend way too much on their woodworking tooling when they could use the money to buy better materials and hardware and ultimately get by with what they got.

Now granted I am a true minamilist woodworker. I thrive on trying to make something nice out of the least amount of tools, jigs and materials. I can thank my Granfather for that!!

I've recently been re-reading one of my dad's old gunstock making books - published in 1941 - and one of the most striking things about it is the assumption that the reader will not have anything close to a full complitment of hand or power tools. Its quite a contrast to almost all the books written today on woodworking, not to mention television shows where they run tops through the timesaver they just happen to have in the corner

Somewhere I saw a post on making a backsaw out of an old carbon steel taping knife! I betcha that's about the most in-expensive way to do it

Its not just the woodworking magazines, I see it in magazines like The Mother Earth News. Pick up an issue from the 70's and 80's and its filled with articles on how to build something out of nothing. Pick up a issue in the last 3 years and its all about what to BUY to make your home green or something. Not quite the same...