Oxide stains on oak due to tanines?

Messages
5,629
Location
Catalunya
Hi there.

I remember having seen some side comments on a thread about oxide stains made by metal being in contact with oak, as next summer I have in mind making a cellar door ( for one of my relatives) with old forged iron rescued nails and humongous lock from the old one I wonder if those stains can be avoided or if they will just add some rustic character to the new door.

The door will exposed and subject to big temperature variations, from 10 below zero centigrade to 35-38 positive, rain and snow.

Any hint will be greatly appreciated.
 
Toni, I'm not positive, but I'm pretty certain the forged iron nails and the lock will stain an oak door, and don't know how you would prevent it (at least permanently). I think it could look pretty cool if that's the style you're after.
 
Hi Vaughn.

I don't know, because I do not know how will those stains be, which colour and how will it affect the whole appearance of the door.

Will it look aged? Or as if someone smeared dirt on it? or will they be like dark streaks dripping down from the nails? That's why I am asking, if i could see an example I could make up my mind, maybe I'll have to find a scrap of oak and dig some nails on it and leave it outdoors for a couple of weeks,
I don't know....:dunno:
 
Toni

Any ferrous metal in contact with oak will give you inky-blue - black staining. It is not attractive. I know of no way to prevent it apart from niot using ferrous metals with oak or oak with ferrous metals. Same thing to a lesser extent with cedar and any other wood containing tannin. If you get staining you can usually remove it with oxalic acid but the only real way is prevention. Use brass, bronze or stainless fitting with Oak.
 
Hi Ian.
Thanks for the info, I was thinking about putting some barrier material on the iron pieces prior to mounting them like clear lacquer, wax or something similar but most problably it won't last or won't work at all.:(
 
The problem is that even if you coat the surface if the fixing is in the wood the staining will come from the inside out, anywhere the nails/screws are in contact with the wood. . You might just be very lucky but.....

The other reason to avoid iron/steel in Oak is that the same reaction that causes the staining causes rapid corrosion of the fittings. So not only is it ugly, its not good for durability either.
 
In [THIS POST] Sam Blasco didn't mention what kind of wood he had recovered from old pallets, but the lighter colored wood in the photo could certainly be oak.

The black marks in that wood look like oxide stains to me, and should give you an idea of what to expect....
 
Good spot Kerry - i think they are oxide stains too but they kind of give the lie to my saying that they are not attractive.:)
 
Well, I didn't want to say the stains were ugly (for Sam's sake) but I didn't want to say they were lovely either (for your sake). So I didn't say anything! :dunno:

As with most things, it seems to depend on what you're trying to say with the piece. I think Sam's piece speaks well for itself. :)

(How's that for diplomacy? :rolleyes:)
 
Well, I didn't want to say the stains were ugly (for Sam's sake) but I didn't want to say they were lovely either (for your sake). So I didn't say anything! :dunno:

As with most things, it seems to depend on what you're trying to say with the piece. I think Sam's piece speaks well for itself. :)

(How's that for diplomacy? :rolleyes:)

I wouldn't use the word lovely but I really like the effect that they lend to Sam's piece. I think that it is probably because there are a fair few of them and they are in the field of the piece rather than attached to a fitting of some sort. I actually like the way that they make the wood look like it has worked hard for its living so far and now deserves a rest in a beautiful piece like that. Pallets eh? Who'd a thunk it.
 
Sams piece is Loverly (If you like that sort of thing) and is a fine example of what will happen when you use iron fasteners in Oak. Sounds like you are looking for massive rustic period piece, And in that period the doors would have been stained and scarred from the effects of weather and the chemical reactions along the way of time. Could be you might be looking forward to the stains the old iron will provide. Sort of like making Lemonade from Lemons instead of being sour about the taste.
 
Yep, that is oak. The mahagony was culled from pallets, as well. Over the years I have found ash, purple heart, maple in pallets. I always check them. I have a tendency to let the wood speak for itself and its history. Thanks for the comments on that piece, it was joy to go along for the ride of helping it be what it wanted to be.
Toni, it would be difficult to defeat the reaction with any ferrous fasteners. Even stainless will do that, to a greater or lesser degree, depending on its nickel content (I think that is the right metal.) A simple test for the quality of stainless by holding a magnet to it. Less attraction, better stainless. I think brass or bronze hardware would prove a better solution for what you want to do.
 
Thanks to everybody for your help, I think that in order to help you in helping me the best thing to do is to post some pics of the mentioned door and the fittings.

However, as I won't be able to take those pictures until Christmas, and I will ot make the door until next summer we'll have plenty of time to discuss and asses what would be the best solution/approach.

There are two drawbacks, the owner of the door ( my wife's cousin) already bought some oak boards,( without talking to me) so changing the wood is going to be difficult but not impossible if I can give him good arguments, and I've been given some by all of you.
What about elm as a substitute? Any other suitable wood?

The other reason to avoid iron/steel in Oak is that the same reaction that causes the staining causes rapid corrosion of the fittings. So not only is it ugly, its not good for durability either.

Hi Ian, you mention durability, well... I know tha I might be putting you between the sword and the wall but how durable are we talking about?

Between 3 to 10 years? 10 to 30? Less than 3?. I don't know how old are the original fittings that we want to spare and reuse, but they are really old, around 80 or more years I guess. Wait to see the pics...

Yep, that is oak. The mahagony was culled from pallets, as well. Over the years I have found ash, purple heart, maple in pallets. .

Oak, mahogany,ash,purple heart and maple in pallets, What a waste! I wish I could stumble on some of those around here! I could make good use of them as for your pics! Great job Frank! pallets here are made of pine wood, and some of them from burnt forests.
 
Top