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Crazy Thoughts-Thinking about Leaving

See Travis, there are lots in this family that care and the general feeling is stick it out and take your wife and daughter on a vacation. In Diving we have a sort of mantra. Stop, breath and think. It works wonders. Stop what you are doing when things go sideways, Take some deep breaths ( in through the nose out through the mouth ) Calm and relaxing. Then think clearly what you want to do and how to get it done. Sometimes a good walk or a wild sled ride will get that clear head that you need you choose. We are not all supermen and some times we need to hear what others think. I can honestly say I am glad to have you talking with us and sharing this with us so that we can share our views and slap some family sence into you :rofl: Ok just kidding. You do need to be talking to your wife about all of your feelings and listen to what she has to say. Communication is the most important thing in any relationship. I wish you the best in what ever you decide to do and hope that you can work through this difficult time. Home is where the heart is. Corney as it sounds it is soooo true.
 
Bill Lantry said:
Come on, guys, this is Travis we're talking to. He's been waiting all summer for the snow to come, so he can ride his snowmobiles some more. Now it's finally arriving, but things are never as good or bad as we expect them to be, and while the woods may look like a wonderland, it still doesn't change the nature of existence... ;)

Besides, Travis often gets crazy ideas that he entertains for a week or two before rationality returns. Remember the silage pile? ;)

Travis, take it from me, who have lived in 14 cities on two continents: if you think changing places leads to a change in situation, you're misthinking. Whereever you go, there you are! ;)

Dash Hammett had an interesting view on this one. He tells the story of a man who lived somewhere in Washington (Seattle, maybe?). He had a steady job, a wife and two kids. One day, he was walking down the sidewalk, and some workmen accidentally dropped a beam from the building they were working on. It *barely* missed him. The whole thing freaks him out, he decides to change his whole life, and he simply disappears. Years later, a detective hired by his wife finally tracks him down. And guess what he's doing? He's living in another city in Washington. He has a steady job, a wife, and two kids. Here's what Hammett has to say about him:

"He adjusted himself to beams falling, and then no more of them fell, and he adjusted himself to them not falling."

If you're interested, you can read the whole incident here: http://www.newpartisan.com/home/hammetts-parable-of-the-falling-beams.html

The point is that nothing really changes, we all have to grapple with our own inner demons, and the big thing is to not to do anything hastily, and certainly not irrevocable. We will, all of us, feel better next week. Is there a point to anything? Of course not: we're all like Sisyphus, just rolling the rock up the hill. But there are small pleasant things along the way. When I woke up this morning, young James was tugging at the covers, saying "Dad, wake up, your coffee's ready." The smile on his face was worth all the indignities and frustrations I'll suffer today... ;)

All this just to say: hang in there, Travis. It will get better. Besides, what's in Oregon? Lots of trees, it's cold, and it's damp. But not cold enough, or damp enough, to produce much good snowmobiling... ;)

Thanks,

Bill
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Bill, only people sleeping with Lilly Hellman can have those kinds of insightful thoughts. But Travis, like the Louisanna NG General said "Don't get stuck on stupid."
 
Well, I guess I'll be the only one besides Bruce to take the other side.

Folks, sometimes it doesn't get any better... and the only two people in the position to know that are Travis and his wife. It's not a decision to make hastily, but if it's the decision you do make, then go west and be happy. You have a responsibility to your daughter, but staying married and miserable isn't going to help her.
 
Kirk Constable said:
Folks, sometimes it doesn't get any better... and the only two people in the position to know that are Travis and his wife.
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Gotta agree on both counts, I've certainly been in relationships that were much better off ending than continuing. Bill also made a very good point, as have others, that happiness or un-happiness really has little to do with place. Its a tough thing being human isn't it?
 
Very insightful responses I must say. Personally, I don't see Patty and I continuing for very much longer. She's a good girl, but she has issues that stem from, as others have pointed out, a very dysfunctional family.

I have tried to talk to her about things, but she just doesn't care. We seldom talk anyway, when we get mad at each other we just send emails until eventually its dropped, not resolved, just dropped. Ultimately she thinks our marriage will be like her Uncles and Aunt's. They are very bitter people yet have been married for 40 years.

Not me. I am not living like that. There is way more going on here than I can ever go into details about, but for the last two years I have not been happy, miserable inside really, and I am just tired of it. I just don't like who I have become (miserable) and I know there is better out there.

One of the key things here I think is this, Patty and I were unequally yoked as the good book says and that is a huge part of our problem. Our morals, ethical standards, efforts for the community...everything we do and look at, are vastly different. My word she isn't even a Republican!!

All kidding aside, I find myself at a serious cross-roads. I meet a lady that has all the moral and ethical standards that I have, and we seem to be...well..equally yoked. Anyway as for now we are just friends, and i truly mean that, but truly praying and putting this whole mess in someone else's hands...someone far more capable then me! (Because of the code of conduct on here I am trying to be appropriate here, and yet get my point across. Its hard to do on such a moral subject as deep as this)

Anyway the good book says "not to be unequally yoked", and yet it also says "let no man put asunder what he hath joined together."

Confused? You bet.
 
Well, now you went and mentioned the other woman that's not 'the other woman' yet. Speaking from experience, you're in a spot. Do what you gotta do, but tread much more carefully.

You'll get through it.
 
Travis Johnson said:
Personally, I don't see Patty and I continuing for very much longer. She's a good girl, but she has issues that stem from, as others have pointed out, a very dysfunctional family.
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Travis, this may be 100% accurate, but before you make any decisions, do one thing here. Remove Patty from that sentence and substitute Alyson. Then ask yourself if you want to give your daughter that kind of legacy. I am not, repeat NOT saying that you will if you leave, or you won't if you stay. There are never any guarantees in life, but we can try to play the probabilities. You need to consider that if your family goes blooey, there is a very good chance that some man is going to be saying these very words about your daughter in the years to come, and you need to make decisions now that will do the best you can to prevent that from happening.

I am sending you a PM as well. Might even be something about the "Good Book in it. :D

Bill
 
Bill Grumbine said:
Travis, one of the things I do when I am not spinning wood is counsel people. Not everyone knows this about me (a bunch more will now!), but I have a Masters Degree in Biblical Studies and two years of post grad work in marriage and family counseling. I've been dispensing advice for almost 25 years now. Three words.

DON'T DO IT!

Marriage is work - hard work. It is also worth it, and your daughter needs a father who is there and who loves her. Splitting a family causes pain and misery on a level that often cannot be comprehended until one is in the middle of it. It also cascades, spawning generations of people who start using that as the solution to just about any problem there is.
Bill
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Sound advice rooted in truthful training - Bravo. Too often people seek counseling from professionals that do not have a background in the basics of human nature that can only come from one source. Good for you Bill. :thumb:

Travis - pay close attention to Bill - he knows from where all knowledge comes. I've been where you are with one exception, she had 'lots' of boy friends. Mine ended, but even though I remarried and have been totally blessed with a saint for a wife the damage that the divorce wreaked on my children is still evident 25 years later. Just for the record, she walked out on me and left me with two youngin's to care for. As the one left behind I can tell you that you daughter will bear the brunt of your actions. You may come to the point where you see no other way, just be sure you have exhausted EVERY opportunity first!
 
travis, i read this yesterday and again this morning.......my words are comming from a guy who for the first part of my life changed woman as frequently as most folks change socks.....
you`ve gotta kid! there`s no perfect woman just as there`s no perfect guy, so quit with the "grass is greener"----"poor, poor me" outlook, get your head outta your rearend and build a life for your family. if the only common ground between you and your wife right now is your daughter then both of you need to dwell on the positive aspect of your daughter, stop focusing on how suzi-q seems more compatible......of course she will, she`s not there! happiness comes from within...you need to be happy with yourself and your role as a father before you`ll ever make a good husband.....just as your wife needs to do the same..
ya`ll ain`t a couple of hormone riddled teenagers so buck-up and focus on positive stuff....get through it, get over it! you`ll both be stronger for the struggle and your daughter will have a real family.
 
Travis,

I know your post was probably intended to go out to the guys in the group and the women have been staying out it. But I am not just a woman. I am also a Pastor.

You have been blessed with a beautiful daughter. Your previous posts indicate how special she is to you. Please bless her with a daddy who is always there. Only Daddy can read her a bedtime story. A child support check cannot. There are way too many things Daddies can do that child support checks cannot.

You and your wife promised 'for better or for worse.' This is the 'worse' in that vow. Please seek out professional help. Start with your clergy person. Both you and your wife. You do not have to be miserable. But it will take work on the part of both of you to be happy. Sit down with your wife and say you are unhappy and you want to do something about it. Invite her to be part of the process of healing your relationship. But take the initiative. Your daughter's whole future rides on this decision. Don't just be a father. Be a Daddy.

Drop the other woman like a hot potato. Continuing that relationship is like suicide. A permanent solution to a temporary problem.

You can do this, man. So do it. I am open to private email if that is helpful, as I am sure Bill is also. And you undoubtedly have garnered much prayful support for you and your family right here. Don't let your daughter be her mother's daughter - raised in a dysfunctional broken home. And don't let your wife continue to experience brokenness in her heart and her spirit.

You all deserve better. Living in Maine would tell me that you are not afraid of hard work. And that is what this will take. But the rewards of your daughter learning how to live in a loving family are more than worth it. And she will learn that loving families take work and that the work is worth it.

You and yours will continue in our prayers.
 
Well I'll probably get blasted for this. Counseling only works if BOTH people go and BOTH people want it.

I have tried to talk to her about things, but she just doesn't care.
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Going by that statement, If Patty doesn't care, she's not going to go to counseling.

Staying in a bad marriage isn't any better for the kids than getting divorced. In fact if it's really that bad it can be worse for the kids.

I'll give you two examples.
My next oldest sister is twice divorced and married for the third time, luckily this time to a saint of a guy. Sis is certifiably bat guano crazy.
Yet all three of her kids that she raised by herself, with absolutely no help from their Dad are in stable relationships. All three of them will tell you in a NY minute they don't want to be like their mother.

Now my one of my nephews on the other hand, Him and his wife are at it all the time. Both of them act like little kids. Always bickering, doing little things to just to agitate the other one. These two need to be divorced. But they stay together and the kids, 8,16,17 suffer for it.
In fact my 17 year old niece comes over here sometimes 3 weekends a month just to get away from them, it's that bad.

Travis, in the end only you know whats right and whats wrong for you. My wife and I separated once for 11 months before we worked it out. If I had kids I don't think I could move 3000 miles away from them.
 
Robert Mickley said:
Well I'll probably get blasted for this. Counseling only works if BOTH people go and BOTH people want it.
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I'm one that won't be blasting you. Takes the effort of TWO parties to make a relationship work, just like it takes two people to fight.
 
I beleive it takes two to work things out. Nothing is easy I always thought that things should just click and go smooth but that never happens. Things have looked greener on the other side for me at times but I stuck it out, the kids are gone and I'm still married, and still have bad times from time to time.(My wife and I are oppisites on everything and I'm the republican:) )
My parents spilt the sheets when I was 13 or 14 the two years before they divorced was living he!! to me and never want to live that again.
If you do get divorced I think you should at least live in the same area as your daughter you need to be there for that.
If you do move what about the other stuff you will give up? I grew up in Montana and moved to Washington (before marriage) The 3 things that I miss most is hunting, snowmobiling and living some what close to my father. I did get back into hunting but not the same as back home. A 100 miles in 3 directions would have put me in the snow but I gave it up. As my father gets older I feel worse all the time. Who will teach your dauthger your values if you are not there,taker her snowcating,teach her woodworking respect for the land.
Okay you are divorced living in Oregon. Wife lives back in Maine remarries a guy with a real shady past with little kids.
Stacey
 
Robert Mickley said:
Well I'll probably get blasted for this. Counseling only works if BOTH people go and BOTH people want it.
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This is true to a certain extent. But lots of times there can be partial success if one person is committed to changing themselves (the only person they can change) and maintaining a relationship. Depending on the situation, as the other person sees the positive change in the first one, that one becomes more amenable to making things work out. It is not an ideal solution, but often it is a start.

Unfortunately in many counseling situations, both people point the finger and the other and say, "Fix him!" or "Fix her!" Followed by, "I am fine, there is nothing wrong with me". In virtually every case, the truth is somewhere in between.
 
Ned said what I thought about last night. I refrained from posting yesterday after reading and then seeing your second post. I wanted to think my answer through carefully. I am not what one would consider a good practicing Christian in the sense I go to church each week, but I am what I consider very Spiritual in the sense I talk to and with God daily and as opportunity strikes (planting using my team or the tractor, pulling a load of hay home at 25 mph, things like that). Anyway, speaking only from experience of raising two daughters, 18 and 20, and a grandpa to one and a 24 year marriage (only one) under my belt currently and still going. A few things that come to my mind, Ned's post, take some time and really read the posts you started, especially the ones about your kitchen, daughter, etc. I have been a High School teacher for over 20 years and quite honestly do not have any experience dealing with kids that get better from a divorce. I used to have a picture in my office of a corner of four pastures, four strand barb wire fence, a cow in each pasture and each cow had their head in the other's pasture (the grass is always greener on the other side). In 1977 when I was 14 years old in Oklahoma at the time in Stillwater going to horseshoeing school, my paternal grandfather's "soul mate" live in girlfriend of three years stood at the foot of the bed and shot him 18 times in the heart with a 22 rifle, a spat over her allowance.
Lastly, this is a family, so you have gotten many and probably will continue to get many personal accounts and support one way or the other. Remember, in this family are many, many craftsmen whose work is of the highest quality. They take wood like I can purchase and make quality works of art I can only dream of, yet like Tod, David Marks, Stu, Marty and all of the others, they make it look/sound so simple/easy yet you know from woodworking experience it isn't, it is a LOT of work. Well, with a wife that comes from the city, alcoholic parents, drug laced siblings, etc., we have found common ground over the years, it was at times hard work, but like the craftsman, from the outside looking in, it looks easy. You are an adult and this is the hard part of being an adult, you alone will decide what you will do, do it for the right reasons and what you decide, do it well. All of the old problems will eventually resurface under new names and situations. Running is easy, being an adult is not. Feel free anytime to email me or PM me, will give you my phone number and would talk however whatever time you call. Put you and your family in my prayers.
 
I got one thing to add to this, I've been reading everyone's post, thanks to you all for chiming in.

I remember not long after high school, a buddy who got married way too young and then the couple had a daughter fairly soon after they got married (no it was not a shotgun wedding) well when the daughter was about 4 years old, my buddy and his wife really were having troubles, work was hard to get, they were into too big a house, and a four year old is a lot of work. One day, sitting around my kitchen table, myself and my (at the time) girl friend were talking to my buddy, he was in over his head, he was at the end of his rope, and he was just tired of all the crap in his life, and he was telling us he was going to just leave, divorce and start over. He kept on telling us it was too hard, that it was too much, and that he could not do it anymore, it was hard, hard, hard. I pointed out to him that they made the choice to get married, they made the choice to have a child and now they have to live up to their responsibilities, but he was just stuck on the "too hard" thing, kept repeating that.

Well, my girlfriend just sat there, I could tell that she wanted to say something, but was not, I could feel her bottling it up, but she kept her mouth shut (he was MY buddy). Well, he finally asked here what she thought, she said "you really do not want to know" he indicated that he did.....

Well, her dad had left her family when she was about 4, she remembers him, a bit, but what she wanted to say was he has NO IDEA what the meaning of "Hard" is, she said "Try growing up, with only a mother, and knowing you had a father, but he left you, she said that she still, at 24 years or so old had NOT come to an understanding as to WHY her dad left, and she really, REALLY did feel that while he may have divorced her mother, he had LEFT her, and she said growing up with that was "Hard" cutting and running away, because things were hard, well that was jack, compared to being a kid and having no say in the matter, and blaming yourself, she said she would hope EVERY Christmas that her dad would return, he never did, every year she would get her hopes up, and every year, she would be heart broken again, she said that was HARD. No matter what anyone said to her, her mom, her uncles and aunts, here grandma, she still felt like she must have done something wrong, maybe not the whole reason that daddy left, but some for sure, and she could NOT understand or figure out why...........

Growing up without a Dad, she said THAT was hard, and she had no choice, and no say in the matter.

Travis, I can only urge you to seek help, this is not something that you want to tackle yourself, you need to go to a pastor, or counselor or someone, even if you just go by yourself, you need to go, your daughter will need you more than you can understand, trust us on this.
 
Just to let you know, I've read every word and am listening as well as reading, just not saying very much. Doing a lot of thinking too.

Bill I got you PM and will get back to you when I get some time alone. Pretty hard to email back when someone is looking over my shoulder.

As for everyone, and I do mean everyone, thanks, despite my heavy heart this truly is family
 
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