Where art though woodworkers???

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As many of you know, I work for a boatbuilding company. I am a machinist, but we hire a lot of woodworkers. The fact is the company I work for just cannot find enough woodworkers. Now granted the yachts we build are in the 3-15 million dollar range and when people are spending this much for a yacht, they want every thing to be perfect...and I mean perfect. Angles are in the ½º range. Gaps can be no bigger then 1/32. And every board is finished with 18-20 coats of spar varnish.

The back log of boats to start building extends into the next decade. The company has doubled in size, built a huge new boat building and have been hiring machinists, carpenters, electricians and other trades to boot...200 in total right now. Still transitioning from home carpentry to boatbuilding has been tough. Even with above average pay, good benefits and extremely generous vacation times, they cannot find enough woodworkers.

So my question is, where can the booming yacht building industry here in Maine find new woodworkers? Why aren't there more young people getting involved or stepping forward? I mean its clean, challenging and work that is warm and done inside buildings on a year around basis. There is a lot of finished pride at the boats launching; and yet there are no woodworkers to be had.

Even in the machine shop, I work with 7 other people and 5 are nearing retirement age. When I ask myself "who will be here in 5 years",the shop starts to look pretty sparse. Over in the carpentry shop, and the cabinet shop, its even worse. Its filled with skilled, older workers. Who is going to replace those guys? With boats there is a huge learning curve, and a lot of compound angles and sweeping curves to deal with. How can a blossoming boatyard have a future without talented woodworkers?

This is scary stuff...where oh where are the woodworkers??

(Here is the link for my place of employment in case you are into boats or are just interested in what we build. The best pictures are located under the "Just launched" link. Then under the "Electra" link, then about halfway down that page there is a link for "Interior pictures". These show off the interior woodwork quite well.)

http://www.lymanmorse.com

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Travis and interesting post. If I was in the right position I would jump at the opportunity. Traditionally a company in your position had an appretice program set up for the double purpose of offering opportunities to young and being able to supply their need for trained tradesmen. This system works well as a company can train for their specific needs. Today's companies are quick to say they can't afford the expense but with a company like yours I don't see how they can afford not to.
 
Alex, that's just what I was going to say.

Travis, is there an apprentice system in place at your place? If not, you had better get one quick. It's no use waiting for someone else to supply the people you need -you have to be pro-active and do it yourselves.
 
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Yep, an apprenticeship program would be great, as well as a summer work program with a local high school shop class or something?

Otherwise, I think it is a general trend in too many western countries. I think that emphasis on a university, an academic education as the only way to be able to have a good life, is also to blame. Don't get me wrong, a good education is very important, but a BA is not the only way to make a good living, in fact I know some people with BAs who are still waiting tables :D

A good education and apprenticeship in the trades can be a VERY good life, as I'm sure many guys here would say.

I too would jump at the chance to be able to do that kind of top drawer work, but the commute would be a killer :doh: :wave:
 
Hear you............
Worked in the machine trade and lack of skilled help was at all time low.

The CNC machines have replaced many good men.

The skill trade was paying $30 hour, a CNC machine operator are getting $17-$20.

Remember my dad tool & die man did all his calucations by long hand with pencil and paper.
He made moldes that would take him 3-6 months to make with a file. Now that is a crafstman, now a CNC can do the same in hour.
 
Alex said it.
I believe the problem is that, in America, we have lost much of the pride that goes with working with ones hands. Our country's economy is now built on service, lattes and BMWs.
Maybe your company needs to do a nationwide recruiting effort and, possibly, extend that effort to Europe.
Would it be practical to outsource any of that work?
 
I hear ya Travis

I've been asking that question for years. And not only for woodworkers, but plumbers, electricians, masons, auto mechanics, machinists, and other "hands on" jobs. Things like these can't be "outsourced". Some of these have apprentice programs but they aren't able to fill the vacancies. Why ? College is not for everyone. Taking "Shop" out of schools and replacing it with "Tech" is going to hurt us down the road. Young people need to be exposed to as many possibilities as possible so they can see what is availeble for their, and our, future. Health care is another area which is suffering. People don't want to get their hands dirty for some reason, and many don't want to start at the bottom and work their way up.

Many people have and do make a darned good living in the "Trades". Who is going to build and maintain the infrastructure required by all the "tech" businesses and their employees ? Working with your hands also requires using your brain. People with money want, and will pay for, the best of the best, like those buying high end yachts. If we don't provide it, they will go somewhere else-more outsourcing. When do we say enough is enough?

Thanks for listening, I'm climbing down off my soapbox now.
 
Boat?? Looks more like a luxury liner to me. Might be tempting to seek out a move, but for three things... 1) I'm not fast enough, 2) too far from the family and 3) I hate cold and snow.:D
 
Nope, no outsourcing where I work. The tolerances are so tight, the polish so mirror like, that it just can't be bidded upon. They tried but it ended up in utter failure. We ended up redoing a lot of the work that another company did just because the polishing was sub par, and the boats are so one-off, that no prints do it justice. In fact blueprints are merely "guides". Its frustrating because sometimes something will measure perfectly fine, but it still does not look quite right. Looks are everything, so the measurements be darned...looks win every time.

Its the same for CNC work. We have a CNC mill, but what makes a CNC great is its ability to make part after perfect part. We don't make enough of one thing to justify something like that. The one mill stays busy, but the manual lathe and Bridgeport are the tools that are never shut down. Its just because these boat owners pay a naval architect a lot of money to design them a boat. the key word there is A. These are one of a kind boats that are tailored to a boat owner.

It gets frustrating because like on the last boat, I spent a month and a half making these fancy oversized stainless steel polished hinges. The boat owner later decided he wanted his ice chest to slide open and not swing open...those hinges were thrown in the scrap heap. A month and a half worth of work...but the boat owners get what they want. He was not upset at what was made, just decided he wanted something different. No big deal...onward and upward.

Still its hard to find good help. here its hard because no one is pushed. You cannot push perfection, so they don't, but it takes skilled, motivated people to use the time we have to make something efficiently. Yeah every boat is cost-plus, but for every delay we have, it pushes ten other boats back on their launching days. We really need to be efficient at what we do, and chasing people around trying to get them to stay on task is out of the question. So they are very selective in their hiring practices. They have to be...

Myself,I love my job. After working there a year I got a good sized raise and now have an excellent reputation of doing good, high quality, detail-oriented work. Because I am a machinist, I work alongside carpenters and mechanics and now have foreman of the other trades asking for me by name. "I'd like to have Travis make this...." Those are really good words to hear and make the job enjoyable.
 
Like others, it surprising if they don't have some type of training program to make people feel more comfortable coming in working at big expensive boats like that. I know I would like it better if I was under someone that was watching me.

Just a sign of the times. If it doesn't involve a computer AND means getting dirty no one wants to do it.
That's funny you mention that. Its why I got into woodworking because I do sit at a computer all day and got sick of it, needed a hobby to use my hands and get a little dirty. There are times I wish I wasn't at a computer all day.
 
I'd like to see the company's application form . . .

bet the " experience " section winds up to be AWFULLY specific. I doubt they'd want to hear about the canoe I built in Boy Scouts. In addition, with the specific skills involved, I'd agree with everyone else. You'd have to have an apprentiship program. Unfortunatly this doesn't fit in with todays mentality. Apprentices don't make top wage, get health care or run the shop the first day. Only learn a valuable trade and future security. Who needs that ?:rofl:
 
Travis, In 1990, I went through a nasty divorce and moved to Seattle, I was hungry for a chance to work on wood boats, but I could not find any one there hireing, as boat building as well as buying had ground to a screatching hault due to our dear Govt's 10% luxery tax on such things.

I am 62, 35 years of self taught wood working, Have built 3 boats, all small, none as finely finished as the ones you guys put out.

I might be willing to come in the Spring say late march and work through October.

That would be cool.....

I have always wanted to go to Maine.... May be in another life.
 
I agree with the above mention of taking shop classes out of schools and the fact that they might get dirty. Also I think alot of the younger population don't understand the concept of perfection in work. I work for John Deere dealer and it hard to find good techs. John Deere now has what is called Ag Tech and it is for those who want to become techs. These schools are held at communitycollages around the country. Techs are sponsored by individal dealers. I know that there are woodworking schools around and wonder if this would work for your company?
 
Of course, my experience is in the western states, things may be a little different elsewhere.

1.) Of the business owners I know in this and similar fields - maybe 10 - those that pay well, provide a good work environment, and actively seek/create workers - like through apprenticeship or taking a bit of a chance on a guy with less experience and a good attitude - have only occassional problems with staffing.

2.) Out here woodworkers pay generally sucks. At worst half what a similarly skilled mechanic can make, at best slightly less. No comparison with certified trades like welders/machinists - assuming they get their certs. Guys with 20 years making furniture and doing trim make about the same as an entry level heavy equipment operator - some of that could be due to unions though.

3.) Luxury industries get hit first and harder by economic downturns, but cars still need to be fixed, telephone and electrical systems still need maintenance, mines still operate, though they all slow a bit too.

4.) Woodworkers that come from other fields, especially higher paying ones, tend to do excellent work, but also are a more volitile workforce. Hard to adapt to the lower pay, hard to adapt to doing work they wouldn't otherwise choose to do - every month there's something like that. At the moment, there are a lot of these workers around - some businesses can really make use of this, some tend to bungle it up, just depends on who's in charge.
 
Maine is beautiful, so that is not the problem.

Have you tried advertising for jobs at the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship?
 
The company has tried a few things in order to get good workers. Last year when they were right desperate for workers, they hired many people that may not have had much boatbuilding experience, but had a good attitude. By working with the state, the state paid part of the wages while they learned the boatbuilding skills. That worked out pretty well as a lot of these learned a lot in the year long program

Now they are trying something else...well at least the owner is. Technically the company has nothing to do with this, but the owner has bought a local college campus and has turned it into a Boatbuilding Technical Center. It has not started up yet, but he is in hopes that the training it provides will fill the needs of the yacht building places here on the mid-coast. You see its not just our company that is hurting. The yacht building industry is just hoping right now,and there are a lot of yacht makers here. (Big yachts, small yachts,and those in between).

Carpentry that involves 5 axis curves, carving, furniture design is very difficult and time consuming to learn, but so are some other trades. One trade that is really hurting is marine electronics. The last boat we built had every conceivable electronic device on it that is possible. Just look at the picture of the helm that I posted,and you can see its state of the art. The problem is most of the marine electronics workers never dealt with this stuff. I mean who has. The owner is hoping that by starting this school he can get employees of this caliber...again not just for us, but for the yachting industry in Maine.

Myself, I think this is commendable.This is a lot of money he is personally investing. Granted he's quite young, and the employees he trains and retains now will be around when he's ready to retire, but its a huge investment in people. It may not be the only answer to the shortage of quality workers granted, but he's definately banking on it being a big help.:dunno:
 
Maine is beautiful, so that is not the problem.

Have you tried advertising for jobs at the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship?

They did hire a woman that graduated from the North Bennett Street School I believe. She has only worked there for a year and a half and her design/creativity is amazing. She is truly a talented woodworker, and actually designed the tables in this photo.

I worked with her a little on this as I did the stainless steel trim that went around the the edge of the coffee table. It does not look like much granted, but there are 8 welds on that trim, and yet its so highly polished and the welds ground down to such perfection that you could never tell it was welded. The hardest part was actually getting the piece to slide on. After numerous tries I ended up heating the trim slightly, enough so the steel expanded, but not so much that it would scorch the wood. Then it shrunk back and clamped itself tight onto the wood.

All in all, it took 9 months to get all the stainless trim done in that kitchen/saloon. 300 linear feet in total.

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