"found" wood question

Mike Gager

Member
Messages
118
Location
Topeka KS
i would like to get into turning and im trying to gather as much info as possible. one thing im not sure of is whether you can turn wood that has been laying around for a long time in log form? for instance like an old tree that fell a few years ago or something similar? i know newly cut trees are considered green and need to be dried but would a tree thats been cut down for a long time have any usable wood and if so would it still need to be dried? i guess im trying to find a source of cheap/free wood that wouldnt require a year of sitting around waiting to be dry enough to do anything with.

also i hear about people looking through firewood piles, is the wood they are looking at freshly cut or stuff thats been sitting for a while?
 
Actually, many (most?) turners prefer green wood.
As to your main question. It depends on the type of tree and it's degree of decay. Obviously soft, rotten wood is unusable. My response is that if it is still solid, it is turnable. In fact, wood that is entering the early stages of rot has variegated lines running throughout. Often these have come color from black to blue and green or even red. This is called 'spalt' and can add beauty and variety to your turned piece. Scavengers go for what pleases them. Unlikely there is one pat answer. Often just being free qualifies the wood as desirable. Personally, I like fruit woods and less common woods from my area. For example, we have a lot of oak, hickory, red cedar and pine. I am not very interested in those. But, show me a dogwood, persimmon, Bradford pear, Osage Orange, etc. I'll have the chainsaw running before the owner finishes saying "Would you like........."
 
Frank hit on the key points. I'll add that if the old wood has deep cracks running through it, you're probably best off leaving that piece in the firewood pile.

All of the "firewood" I've turned was green when I turned it. Recently a neighbor gave ma a piece of sycamore that had been drying for a few years. Once I started cutting it up, I discovered that is was cracked throughout, so I gave it back to him for his firewood pile (along with a bunch of my other bowl blank trimmings).

As Frank mentioned, most of us would prefer to turn green wood to rough size, let the rough-turned piece dry, then re-turn it to the final dimensions. A solid bowl blank might take years to dry naturally, but a rough-turned bowl from that same blank will dry in somewhere between one and six months, depending on the drying method.
 
Hello Mike. I just saw you are from the other end of the state. Anyway the advice you got from Frank and Vaughn are spot on. I would really rather turn green wood especially bowls, Hollow Forms and vases. If I am turning small stuff like lidded boxes, christmas ornaments, mini birdhouses, pens or peppermills you really want dry wood. They are not so bad to turn dry with the small size and you use a forstner bit to drill to openings of some.
 
i understand most folks like to turn green wood, but what about after the wood has been dried? its not considered green anymore after that right? to me that would be the best part of turning, getting everything finished shaped and ready for the finish

i want to get a lathe soon and start turning but i dont want to have to wait 6 months to finish my first bowl!

is buying kiln dried blanks the only option?
 
Mike,

Green wood is easier to turn. It turns quicker and doesnt' dull your tools as quickly as dry wood. Wood that has been drying but isn't quite dry and has cracks.....well....you spin it up and the cracks can cause the blank to become a bomb and explode while you are turning it. Usually when this starts to happen, it will suddenly start to vibrate or the sound the spinning blank makes will change. Any of the aforementioned conditions...stop the lathe and check the blank. In some cases you can successfully fill the crack with either epoxy or superglue and after the adhesive dries, finish turning it. If you elect to not glue it and it's really cracked....put in the firewood pile. You only have to have one come apart once while you are turning it to make you realize why you repair it or pitch it.

Usually green wood is turned to a rough state....allowed to finish drying....then returned to the lathe for finish turning. Then it can be sanded and a finish can be applied.

In some cases wet wood can be turned to a thin thickness and finished immediately. In those cases the project will usually warp and that is taken for granted and considered as part of the effect. Some folks turn natural edged (NEs) bowls this way quite successfully!

Dry wood....say kiln or air dried can be turned quite well and immediately finished. But......it's much harder.....will dull the tools quite rapidly requiring more sharpening more often.....often several times if not many sharpenings will be requried to finish the project. But it can immediately be sanded and finished.
 
Mike,

Usually green wood is turned to a rough state....allowed to finish drying....then returned to the lathe for finish turning. Then it can be sanded and a finish can be applied.


Dry wood....say kiln or air dried can be turned quite well and immediately finished. But......it's much harder.....will dull the tools quite rapidly requiring more sharpening more often.....often several times if not many sharpenings will be requried to finish the project. But it can immediately be sanded and finished.

wouldnt the green wood you rough turned then put away to dry have the same hardness and effect on the tools as a kiln dried blank? obviously there wont be as much material to remove since thats what the rough turn got rid of but it seems like its the same except you wouldnt have to wait months to finish your project. or am i still missing something else here?
 
You are absolutely right.....But you don't have to sharpen tools 3-4-5 times to get to the same place.....But you do have to wait......
 
Yep, Ken nailed it. Finish turning the dried rough-out is not easy, but you're removing a lot less material, especially on a big piece. Plus, you'll have a hard time finding kiln dried wood in larger sizes. Three, maybe four inches thick at the max. Green wood, on the other hand, can be had in much larger sizes. After you've chucked up a big ol' piece of green wood and shot curlies all over yourself and your shop, it's hard to go back to turning dried wood.

Firewood that's been air-drying for a couple years might surprise you how moist it still is once you get deep into the log. (Assuming it's a pretty big diameter log). A rough rule of thumb that I've seen is that it takes about one year per inch of thickness to air-dry wood. At that rate, a 12-inch log could take 6 years to completely dry. And unfortunately, it'll likely have dangerous cracks running through the wood by the time it gets there.

As far as the waiting is concerned, if you soak the green rough-turned piece in denatured alcohol (DNA), you can have it dry in three or four weeks. It's usually worth the wait. Plus, you can be rough-turning other pieces in the meantime. Eventually, you'll have a selection of dried rough-outs waiting to be finish turned, as well as a stock of green blanks waiting to be started, so anytime you want, you can go into the shop and either finish a piece, or turn green wood and make a great mess. Just off the top of my head, I've got a dozen or so pieces waiting to be finished, and several dozen sealed green blanks waiting to be turned. The hardest part is deciding what I want to turn each night. ;)
 
Mike, you have recieved good advice so far, but I would like to repeat something Ken said. Wood can come apart at high velocities when being turned, not unlike a bomb. I'm not trying to scare you, just want to say don't turn anything very big without a face shield. I've had a few bowls lose a chunk and glance off the face shield, it happens so quick you don't have time for even a thought. I read about one turner who woke up in a pool of blood and had to get his face reconstructed. This is an extreme example and you bet he wears a face shield religiously now.

If you can get it, cherry is a good wood to start turning on. It turns relativly easy when green and looks nice when finished. I have a friend who owns 45 acres of woods. I advised and helped him get a good price when he had his woods logged. When I started turning I mentioned to him that I was thinking of turning cherry. He enthusiasticly took me for a tour of his woods and selected a large veneer cherry and said "take this one":rofl:. I declined and found a tree that was dying and cut that one down. They have some of the turnings I hacked out of that tree. Good luck and go make some curly chips!
 
When I was a new turner I was visited by a very experienced turner and his wife. He brought me several dried, ready to finish roughed out bowls. I, although not nearly as good a turner as he, try to also do this when visited by a new turner. It is a great way to get a bowl without having to turn from green to done or wait for it to dry.

I still have one of those bowls that if I was to do it over again I would change the shape slightly but that is part of the bowls history. Every time I look at the bowl I think of my friends.
 
mike, i started woodturning about a year ago so i can relate to where you are now with the questions. my best advice is to spend a few days..or longer..reading through some of the posts on this site. they will raise more questons but the answers will be in other posts. also, there are a few videos that i've bought that are directed at the newbie, very worthwhile. you can rent some of these on smartflix.com for $10 but you may find you wish to own some of them for reference.
my main regret is that i bought tools, including a lathe, that i did not need, do not want now that i've had a little experience. i'm literally paying for my education. so take a deep breath and dive in.
 
Mike,

I'm like you. I truly prefer to turn a piece and finish it on the spot. I've got a lot of strangely shaped bowls and platters as a consequence of doing it with green wood. I now mostly turn green and dry the roughed out forms, but.... I still have a few blanks for a huge Cherry which I cut up about five years ago. I'm guessing that I'm on my 60th bowl from that tree, and almost all of them have beautiful spalting and can be turned blank to finished bowl in about one to three hours (depending on the size). That beats heck out of my tools so I keep three sets of every size I use, but it sure beats rough turning, soaking in DNA, waiting weeks and then finish turning.
Luck, Hilel.
 
When I stared turning, I would got some green wood, and roughed them out, then waited and waited...........

Now, a while down the slippery slope, I have a bunch of roughed out blanks, wrapped up, and dried, waiting to be finish turned.

I think in a little while, you will be in a similar place, in the mean time, learn to turn some spindle projects, the toothpick holders are fun and challenging, as well as things like Christmas ornaments (NEVER too soon to start) etc. etc.

Cheers!
 
I rarely turn wood that I haven't got either cheap or free. I use anything from driftwood to offcuts from cabinet makers. At the end of the day if it used to be a tree you can turn it. :)
Different types of wood are easier than others, cherry turns well but can split ages after it has dried. Sycamore (maple), ash walnut and beech are all a doddle. Even some rotten woods can be turned with a bit of practice and imagination.
Everyone has a favourite so the best thing is to have a go at whatever you can get you hands on and learn that way

Dead wood you get from the ditch or woods is often wet but not sappy or green and this dries out really quickly and evenly usually without splitting IMHE

Be careful with spalted wood or wood that you haven't identified and make sure that you have some kind of dust mask on at the very least as it can be dodgy on the lungs.

Most of all remember that if it's free you aren't wasting money, just practicing.

Pete
 
addendum to question about green or dry

Having kind of sort of voted for occasional dry wood turning, I have come across a problem which now makes me lean toward turning green. Just tried coring (w/Mcnaughton's bowl saver) three blanks from a larger dry piece, and it is ten times harder than doing it w/a green blank. Managed to save junior and baby, but "momma" bit the dust. The dust was also major nuisance. I may break down and post pics, but the fact is that it is the last time I try that with a completely dry bowl blank. I think that it is slightly better to get hit w/wet shavings than to have to swallow dry dust.
Just thought I'd add that.
Hilel.
 
Actually, many (most?) turners prefer green wood.
......"


Actually Frank, You may prefer it but I know few others who do. I know this will spark and "OH Yeah!:eek:!" or two but aside from some bowl turners and forum guys, "Most" mature turners in my world would rather turn cured wood.
 
I hope that this thread is still in the form of good natured differences expressed humorously . I'm in the middle on this one, but the two clubs to which I belong (Palmetto in Columbia, SC and CVA in Central Virginia) have a combined membership of about 180. The folks who make small items prefer working with dry wood, but the overwhelming majority-mature and immature- of bowl turners in both clubs work with green wood.
Even in this, I'm in the middle. I'm 69 years old-classified as very, very mature- but if you ask my children, grandchildren and most of my friends, I'm very, very immature.
Have a great day, Hilel.
 
Perhaps Mature might be a wrong term, for I was referring to those of us (also on the other side of 60) who were technically trained in schools of higher education with the materials and processes of the woodworking industry realize that the quick processing of bowl materials into blanks for future turnings and the ease of making curls and cast iron distroying sap rich spaghetti love to use green wood (wet brown wood as well) It is the fellow who wants to make a single piece of great detail that prefers dry woods. Ever see a segmented turner use fresh cuts? Spindle turners often use well cured wood as anything else would not provide the detail needed or would be subject to warpage.

Some have a passion for their style of turning and consider that their way is THE way, and that MOST turners must certainly enjoy their methods and preferences. I was expressing my opinion that when you venture into different realms of the art of turning you find that there are a large gauntlet of opinions on materials and tools and to make a broad statement such as MOST is too limiting. Such a phrase as: Most I know, or Most I hang out with, or Most I talk to, or Most I read about, or Most I haver seen.... etc. A definitive statement needs a qualifying additive.

And yes, I say these things with "good natured differences expressed humorously" :wave:

Not one method or preference is absolute in correctness or should be labeled with a definitive adjective. Perhaps I was a bit crude in my expression of this and was not thinking clearly :eek: any more that was considered when "Most" was directed toward the turners who have tried and are successful with curred wood turnings. Such a statement would have placed me with the minority and indicated a less than superior turner. As I consider myself an well accomplished turner and although not as skillful as some, am a lot better than others. So, perhaps I took offence at that statement. I'm sure there was no intent, but such a statement has broad interpretations and must be considered when conversation are posted on a broadcast rather than personal, where qualifications can be made.

All in all have a nice day, I will, having enjoyed the 3" of rain yesterday followed by the continuous raining all day today and looks like tomorrow as well. (Perhaps I best look into wet turning alternative)
 
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I'm certainly not going to try and tell you, or anyone else what to think or what is right/wrong, I could only relate my experiences in my very short time at this thing we call turning.

For bowls and such, I turn dry wood only, that is my bowls and hollow forms are made from dry wood, the wood is dry when I finish turn, sand and put a finish on it, to the point that I'll put my mark on it. I have only once ever turned a piece of "Green wood" to the point where it was finished, in one sitting, this was a chunk of Mesquite that I got from a fellow turner in the US, I was advised to turn it thus :dunno:

I often start out with green wood, as it has been fairly plentiful and almost alway free :thumb:

I have a few large chunks of wood that were green, but have dried out, before I knew much about sealing the wood, now these are really full on 1/2 rounds of logs, that I would need to cut on the bandsaw, then mount on the lathe and turn. Boy that will be a job and a half, from a large chunk of hard dried wood, to shape the outside, then hollow out the inside, man, dusty, dirty, hard work, not my favorite thing to do. I would MUCH rather have taken the same piece of wood when it was still green and roughed it out, this way, the majority of the grunt work would have been done when the wood was much easier to work, then it would only need to be finish turned when it eventually dries out :dunno:

Anyone who turns anything from wood, is turning wood that was once green wood. For a lot of things, like the snowmen I made, or the square plates etc, I used Maple that I bought already dried, the Maple turns well when dried, I really enjoy turning it when dried, but if I got a whole log of it green, I'd chop it up into bowl blanks and rough turn them into bowl blanks.

The few pro bowl turner's shops I've seen (mostly in pictures and videos etc) seem to have a lot of roughed out dried blanks around, just waiting to be finished turned, I know they all do not have that, but if the wood is free, I would think most would take it :dunno:

Certainly for spindle turning, the vast majority of the wood used is dry, but I do know of some exceptions to that rule too, they are the more "Art" pieces, but they are spindle turnings (like the mushrooms that Eli Avisera does, he like the wood to be green).

I think that when you are learning, you should focus on making progress with understanding how the tools cut, make curlies, don't worry about making a bowl, or such, just concentrate on learning how to turn. In this case free green wood is really great, because if you got it for free, and you only have your time invested in it, so what if you end up with only a pile of curlies :D

Cheers! :wave:
 
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