Vacuum Rig Ver. 2.0

Stuart Ablett

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Tokyo Japan
Well, after seeing the fine work that >> Steve Schlumpf << did on building his vacuum system, and the work that >> Vaughn McMillian << did on his Vacuum Cart, I figured it was time to upgrade my set up. :thumb:

There is one big difference between the systems they built, and the one I'm building, that is the pumps. Their pumps are not very large at all, they weigh about 25 lbs or so, while the pump I have, weighs in at over 60 pounds, so my system will live below the lathe, on top of the sand box on my stand.

I have a Nova DVR 3000, the "Vacuum Attachment" that Tekna Tools sells is rather poor, they say it is for use with a shop vac, well I tried mine, and it did not work well at all, I had zero confidence that it would hold well enough to do much more than some sanding.

I know that OneWay sells a good Vacuum Adaptor..........

rotary_adaptor_250px.jpg
..........

But is is nearly $100, and I'd have to remove the hand wheel each time I wanted to use this, so I was not interested (no doubt it is a good piece of kit).

I saw someone else using the "Holdfast" adapter, so I looked at it.......

holdfast-chuck-adapt_l.jpg


Now I have to say, this really does look like something I could make myself, and being a chronic "Do it yourselfer" I did :rolleyes:

The hardest thing to source was the threaded lamp rod, but I did find some, at my favorite DIY shop, Joyful Honda! :clap:

OK, I started with the "Spinner" which is the bit on the handcrank end of the headstock, NOT the spindle side. This is the piece that the hose attaches to and goes to the pump.

bering_nipple.JPG
I took a bearing that I had, it has an inside diameter of 12mm, and I took a hose nipple that has an outside diameter of 13.6 mm..........

nipple_in_chuck.JPG
I then chucked up the hose nipple in the lathe and used a fine file on it to reduce it's size, I checked often, until I got it just the right size.

nipple_in_bearing.JPG
I used the woodworking vice to press fit the hose nipple into the center of the bearing.

nipple_in_bearing_backside.JPG
Just to make really sure, I used some silicone sealer on the backside of the bearing, I sure hope it does not leak.

center_nut_in_hole.JPG
next I took one of the roundish nuts I got from the lamp shop stuff and drilled a hole that just fit the nut, this will get sandwiched between two pieces of MDF in the spinner.

center_nut_round.JPG
I then used a holesaw to cut this piece of MDF into a nice little wheel, and I made a matching one as well.

I made a third piece that is a little larger in diameter for the bearing to sit in.

spinner_parts.JPG
Here are the parts that make up the "Spinner" for the handwheel side of the lathe.

After that pic was taken, I drilled the center hole out to 9.6 mm, just slightly smaller than the lamp rod diameter, so the lamp rod will have to thread into the MDF a bit, I hope this stops some of the leaks.

spinner_shaped_on_lathe.JPG
I next put everything together, and glued it all up, then shaped it a bit on the lathe. (I've not yet begun the shaping in the pic).

OK, on to the spindle side of things, I needed something to stop the lamp rod from pulling through the headstock, I could not find a tap in the right thread size for the lamp rod, or I'd have just made one up from some plastic or something............

lamp_rod_ball.JPG
........instead, I bought this brass ball which was already threaded, I guess it was a finial on a lamp or something :dunno:

lamp_rod_on_lathe.JPG
I screwed it on to the lamp rod, using RED Loctite then I drilled it, and shaped it a bit on the lathe (brass shapes easy with the lathe HSS tools :thumb:).

If need be, I'll put some sort of foam washer between the ball and the spindle, but I think I can "Rub" the brass ball against the spindle enough to make a good tight fit :dunno:

Cont............
 
OK just a bit more for now......

vacuum_rod_done.JPG
Here is my Dungeon Made vacuum rod!

I'll put a bit of sealer on the MDF, just to make sure it does not leak, but that should be good to go.

vacuum_rod_in_place_1.JPG
here it is from the spindle side, the various vacuum chucks will just screw onto the spindle.

vacuum_rod_in_place_2.JPG vacuum_rod_in_place_3.JPG
A couple of shots from the back side, you can see the bearing and the hose nipple. The hose nipple is the type that the hose, which is this stiff stuff, just pushes into the nipple, then you can release it by pushing down a collar around the hose, should be good.

vacuum_rig_parts.JPG
here are all the parts, yet to be assembled.

The large "T" fitting is my manifold of sorts, as the hose from my mondo pump is an inside diameter of 20mm, the fitting is large too. I hope to mount this all, tucked neatly out of the way, but still accessible under the end of the lathe.

Well, that is it for now, more when I get more done!

Oh Yeah, here is my "Cute Vac"......
vacuum_pump.JPG

Cheers!
 
Excellent !

I have been putting off making up a vac rotary adapter for some time now and you have just provided the inspiration for me to get off my butt and do it. I looked into an adapter like Steve Schlumpf had made and it's nice but slightly more than I expected. Very well made though. I have some bearings already and can get lamp rod easily. Good tip on the brass ball too. I have a bunch of scrap Corian so I might make mine out of that-no leaks.

Great job as usual Stu, thanks for all the pix and details.
 
Doom, despair, and agony on me...........:bang::bang::bang::bang:

The bearing I bought is "Shielded" not "Sealed" :doh: sometimes things get lost in translation :doh:

Also, the "One Touch" fittings leaked, I guess they are OK for air "pressure" but not for "vacuum" :doh::doh::doh:

Oh well.

I switched to the normal fittings and normal hose, worked fine, but..... the stupid bearing leaks like a screen door on a submarine.....:bonkers:

OK, I switched to the Tekna Tool adapter that fits into the handwheel........... that bearing leaks as well :mad:

Otherwise, everything is peachy :rolleyes:

I'm trying to find another bearing, I can easily order one on Monotaro, it should be here tomorrow, but I really, REALLY need to find out, for sure, if this one is "SEALED" not just "SHIELDED" ...........

Pics later.....:(
 
Well, that bites. You know infinitely more about bearings than I do, so I don't have any advice to offer, just consolation. ;)
 
I could not crack the codes for the NTN bearings, but I found a code crack for the NSK bearings, on a skateboard site, of all places :D

I ordered the 6004-DDU which is the "Double Contact Seal" bearings, so I hope that woks :dunno:
 
OK here are the pics, I guess Ver. 2.01 :rolleyes:

rig_done4.JPG

OK, that is how it looks, when not in use, I even put a nice hook on there for the hose :D

rig_done1.JPG
Here it is in use, I think this will work just fine (when I get the right bearing!), not "easy" to get too, but, not in the way either.

rig_done2.JPG
OK, here is the gage with everything sealed up, but the bearing is leaking like crazy.

rig_done3.JPG
Here, by sealing off the hole in the spinner adapter, you can see I can draw max vacuum.

Hope that bearing gets here soon! :wave:
 
Hi Stu,

I hate to rain your parade, but... :eek:

MDF will need to be really well sealed. It also leaks like a sieve. (Loved your analogy of a screen door on a submarine!). But I digress. MDF is used by CNC users (big production shops) as a spoil board. Air is drawn through it to hold materials that are being cut. And as the air is being pulled through it, small particles are loosened and pulled with it. It time it looks like microscopic Swiss cheese. Leaking even better! Since they are also cutting into it slightly as they cut their parts, that looses more particles... well, you get the idea. :eek:

Lest you think this does not apply, some qualifications that allow me to make this assertion. :type:

In the '90's I taught woodworking in a community college in California. I developed and taught a course on vacuum applications in the woodworking shop. In that class the students each built a system and some jigs to use with it. (It has many more applications that holding something on the lathe. ;)

At the end of the semester we had a contest to see whose system held a vacuum the longest. That certainly tested the materials involved. :thumb:

That said, I can tell you that you will want to upgrade to a non-porous material. Sealed maple worked well. HDPE also did. We had a plastics supplier nearby and they had a wonderful scrap bin! Any washer or gasket material had to be closed cell material. Oddly, rubber did not form a good seal. It proved to be too inflexible in mating to the surfaces to be sealed. :D

So perhaps your leaks are coming from places other than your bearing. Your bearing should be specified a a double sealed bearing. I realize that your sources of supply are not the same as in the States, but bearings are manufactured worldwide and that is a valid specification. (We had a bearing supplier come into the class to talk about these things, as we used bearings in some of our other jigs as well.) :D

I suspect you have read the www.joewoodworker.com site. He has excellent information and is a reasonably priced source for parts and pieces needed to build a system. :thumb:

Sorry to get to the party so late, but my day job yesterday was 14 hours long.

BTW, I liked the ball end idea. However, I would line the ball side to the spindle mating with closed celled foam insulation. Wrap it around the lamp rod and unto the ball. Cut an angled meeting of the 2 ends, and a scarf joint as well, rather than a perpendicular butt joint. It will seal against itself better. :thumb:

It takes only the tiniest of leaks to seriously degrade the quality of the vacuum pressure. Perhaps your pump's CFM can overcome your application, but most likely not. That's the difference between our little systems and the big boys big systems. CFM. :thumb:

One more thought based on experience. The force most likely to break the vacuum bond proved to be sheer force. And that is just the force we turners need to have working FOR us. In turning applications (which we did not do back then 'cause no one I knew was using vacuum chucks with their lathes then), the type of material on your chuck between it and the wood being turned ought to be something tacky. Not sticky, but tacky. Again I would use the closed cell foam insulation on the edge that contacts your work. BWT, 3/8" wide stuff proved to be the most useful. When looking for the stuff, look into door and window insulation products and make sure the package specifies "closed cell." :thumb: Also a light touch with the turning tools when under way or you will have entered the world of bowl launching.

Just some real world experience with this particular technology garnered over 4 years of teaching the classes. :)

Something more to think about. Your turned wood will also leak to some extent, especially open cell wood. This means your system in use will have some leaks. With our smaller CFM pumps we have to reserve those inevitable leaks to the wood turning. The system will have to be leak-proof. On thin turnings you will need a valve to introduce a controlled leak or it will implode. Exciting to watch. Somewhat dangerous to be around. Totally destructive to the workpiece. :rofl: Sealing the turning with finish on the side being mated to the vacuum chuck is a good idea no matter which wood you are turning.

Hope I have been helpful, and I am happy to answer questions if there are any, but patience is order this week. Much on my calendar. (I am a minister in my day job.) :)
 
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Carol, I'm aware of most of the things you bring up, but certainly not all of them, thanks so much for sharing your experience and knowledge! :thumb:

I know that the MDF is really porous, and the chuck that I have used MDF for I did have to put about seven coats of poly on it to seal it up.

I have imploded bowls :eek: and yes, it was exciting :rolleyes:

In an earlier post on the subject, I noted that when a bowl that is somewhat thin is on the vacuum chuck, having it's base sanded, when I rubbed my hand over the surface of the bowl, it felt "Wet", while I knew it was NOT wet, it felt that way. What I was feeling was the drag I would normally associate with wet wood, but as my brain was not thinking "Vacuum" it thought "Wet Wood", so it fooled me, I had a good laugh at myself on that one :rofl:

If you noticed in my last post, I've pretty much ditched the lamp rod and the spinner and I am trying to get a double sealed bearing to replace the one on the Tekna Tools Vacuum adapter, which is NOT sealed, only shielded.

The Pump I am using is a little overkill.....

cutevac_1.jpg cutevac_2.jpg cutevac_3.jpg
I found this same pump for sale in the US on eBay and other sites, selling for $600, so I think I got a good one here, I paid 11,100 yen plus shipping, maybe another 1,500 yen (it weighs 26Kg/57lbs) so a total of 12,600 yen or $105 USD
biggrin.gif


Says pumping to the 10-2 and 160 liters a minute (42 US Gal/min) , but I may yet put my reservoir tanks back into the system. :dunno:

cutevac_4.jpg
Here is a another pic of the pump, sitting on the bed of my DVR, with my Estwing hammer in there for scale :D :wave:


Again, thanks much for all of your info Carol, I appreciate it. :thumb:

Cheers!
 
Great job Stu! Love the photo work also! Half the fun of making something yourself is overcoming the little pitfalls that occur once you fire everything up! At least you know what the problem is and what it will take to fix it!

I give you big credits for figuring out a way to build your own system - and then actually doing it! Nice work!
 
Stu,
I think a "sealed" bearing is sealed to keep out contaminants. Your vacuum pump will suck the grease right out of your sealed bearing and it will leak just like the other one. You really need to incorporate a design using o-rings or cup seals.

Lee
 
stu, your few words about the teknatool adapter answers a question i had. they sell that adapter for about $40 U.S. which is much cheaper than the oneway or my custom adapter from tom steyer. i didn't order the teknatool adapter because of your email that it does not work well. now we know why. teknatool makes an issue of using a shop vac with their adapter. if they're using a shielded but not sealed bearing they need the high flow of a shop vac to compensate for the leaks through the bearing. that also explains why their price is unusually low.
also, i called oneway before i ordered the custom adapter and they do not make one for the nova. they were willing to work with me on a design but the cost would have more than doubled for the custom work.
 
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Thanks Steve!

Lee, the bearings that I have ordered now, are supposed to be double contact sealed, which is rated for waterproof, I'm hoping this is enough.

If you look at the >> "Handwheels" << thread, Post #9, Gordon Seto shows his set up. Gordon was also kind enough to send me a PM showing me this pic, with some explanation.......

gordon_seto_vac_adapter.jpg
Gordon Seto said:
This is the old picture. I have eliminated the quick disconnect because it leaks real bad and it is unnecessary. The bearing is just a common 6004-2RS double sealed bearing.

Gordon, I hope you do not mind I shared this good info with everyone :eek:

We shall see I guess :) :wave:

Cheers!
 
I have tried to use kiln dry wood stacked cross grain to make the chuck. The wood still moved after the first use. May have to allow for truing it up.
 
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