how to cut bar moulding?

allen levine

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I thought I posted this question, maybe it was removed, so Ill try once again.
OUtdoor bar, Im using oak plywood(yes, I know its a no no, but with 8-10 coats of spar varnish, it held up fine for 2 years, redoing it again)
anyway, I dont have an extensive set of router bits, newcomer and all, but I think with basic roundover, cove and rabbitting bit, I can do some sort of decent bar moulding. I have some leftover oak, another no no, but it wil be varnished also, and it just looks so good stained.
Any tricks or clues on how I should proceed to cut this.
The stock is 3/4" x 3 inch. (I can glue up 2 pieces if I need too)


and if any of the experts read this, Id like to ask another quesiton about routers here.
I have a dewalt router, cant recall the model offhand, its the one that comes in with the 3 bases, plunge router base, stationary, and pistol grip, in a set. Regardless, after owning it for approx one year, it stopped working, and to start up with dewalt wasnt worth it. I brought it locally and had it repaired. Cost me 90 something bucks.
I was informed I shouldnt use an extension cord, when using a router? Why is this?(wasnt the cause of the damage, since I never used one)
 
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what are you asking? if you`re looking for profile suggestions it`s kinda hard not knowing what cutters you have?
can you draw a picture of a moulding cross section?
 
Ive only looked at pictures online, of bar mouldning shapes, and I thought that if I practiced a bit with a cove bit and rounderover bit I could form a similar shape, and then rabit out a half inch or so and attach it to the bar top.
I have I believe a 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 rounderover bits, and 2 cove bits, rabitting is adjustable.
http://www.bairdbrothers.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/B005-OAK.jpg


does this help, anything close or similar will do, this is an outdoor tiki bar, gets tons of use, rugged, so beauty isnt the main issue, but Id like the moulding to at least decorate it a bit, beats the rounded over ply edges

Im not hiding the fact that Im a beginner, and my hands on router experience is very limited.
 

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...I was informed I shouldn't use an extension cord, when using a router? Why is this?(wasn't the cause of the damage, since I never used one)

The answer to whether or not to use an extension cord is --- It depends!

A long extension cord, made of a low current carrying capacity wire (higher wire guage number) can cause excessive voltage drop, which in turn can mean that the current goes up (causes heat). The higher current means the router runs hotter, and is working harder so it leads to premature failure.

Another factor is the overall length of the extension cord. Longer cords mean greater voltage drops, so use a heavy duty cord that's as short as practical for the job at hand.

That said, as long as your extension cord is of good quality, and made from a wire guage that's at least as big - preferably bigger than - the power cord on the router itself, you should be okay.

Personally, I try to position my work so as to not need any extension cords, but that can't always be done, so I have several 12 gauge extension cords on hand for when I absolutely have to take the tool to the job instead of bringing the job to the tool.
 
the repair service told me the dewalt router is not a good machine.
I believe he suggested my next purchase should be a makita router.
He called any ryobi tool a disposable, and laughed at me when I brought my bosch planer in when I accidently got the cord stuck in the blade and shredded it. I keep him busy at least.
 
allen, when i make mouldings i`ll draw a box on paper the size of my stock (say 3/4x3") then draw the profile in the box, next hold up your cutters and determine how the stock will have to be run past the cutters in order to get the profile you`re looking for.
or in the case of the moulding you link to you could spend a couple bucks a foot and save the labor?
 
allen, when i make mouldings i`ll draw a box on paper the size of my stock (say 3/4x3") then draw the profile in the box, next hold up your cutters and determine how the stock will have to be run past the cutters in order to get the profile you`re looking for.
or in the case of the moulding you link to you could spend a couple bucks a foot and save the labor?

I was thinking of just using some old cheap pine cutoffs and playing around as long as it took, just keep flipping the boards, using the cutters as I thought the shape needed.

I really enjoy the labor, my time playing with wood is what its all about for me, not nearly anything like the talent Ive seen here, but the personal satisfaction I get out of actually creating something I want, or can save money on, like mouldings is worth any time I put in.
Id rather not go for mouldings, its like a luxury for an outdoor bar that is 2 years old, and I recut, Im even using the same cut frame fromthe roof and counter top, sort of gives me a drop of pride knowing I didnt have to spend more money to make something look nicer.
I like the idea, Ill draw something and give it a shot, Ill try to post a pic of the cuts on the pine cutoffs, Ill write down each time I use which cutter so Ill remember the sequence if I like the outcome.
 
Ive only looked at pictures online, of bar mouldning shapes, and I thought that if I practiced a bit with a cove bit and rounderover bit I could form a similar shape, and then rabit out a half inch or so and attach it to the bar top.
I have I believe a 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 rounderover bits, and 2 cove bits, rabitting is adjustable.
http://www.bairdbrothers.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/B005-OAK.jpg


does this help, anything close or similar will do, this is an outdoor tiki bar, gets tons of use, rugged, so beauty isnt the main issue, but Id like the moulding to at least decorate it a bit, beats the rounded over ply edges

Im not hiding the fact that Im a beginner, and my hands on router experience is very limited.


A LESSON IN FUTILITY!!!!!


The router table I borrow, moved, my contractor neighbor gave it to his associates to keep at their homes, which are just too far for me to run the few times I need the table.

So I decided either play around with the moulding, give it a shot, or leave it out.(the original bartop doesnt have moulding)

I finally surrendered to my total lack of talent.
I fought for 5 hours, skipped lunch,(not that this is a bad thing, I could stand to skip alot of lunches), and decided Im a moron when it comes to this kind of thing, and just decided simple is best.
Keep it simple stupid, always good advice for me and wood.
Im not even ashamed of posting how simple my moulding will have to be. It works, does the trick, Ill stain it up, vanish it, and whenever I look at it, Ill remember if I havent purchased my own router table by then, its certainly time.
No laughing please.
 

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Don't kick yourself too hard, Alan. The molding looks perfect for the application you have in mind. No laughing necessary...most of us have gone through (or are still going through) the same learning curve. ;)
 
Alan,

I'm still going through the learning curve. One thing I learned: you can't make good moulding without a router table (or a shaper). Trying to do it with a hand held router just isn't worth it...

But building your own router table is fun and rewarding. Trust me, I've made three so far! ;) They get better each time... ;)

Thanks,

Bill
 
Hi Allen :wave:,
Just noticed your thread. It is always exciting to me when I hear of someone like yourself, just starting out, new to the tools but with a joy for the woodworking itself, and a desire to make something, even for the practice.:thumb:
I was thinking of just using some old cheap pine cutoffs and playing around as long as it took, just keep flipping the boards, using the cutters as I thought the shape needed. This is a good idea and has lead me to some very creative profiles!

I really enjoy the labor, my time playing with wood is what its all about for me, (and that ALLEN is what it is all about! You're are on the right track!) not nearly anything like the talent Ive seen here, but the personal satisfaction I get out of actually creating something I want, or can save money on, like mouldings is worth any time I put in. (With that attitude you will win in this woodworking thing, asking the questions and trying are so important.)
Id rather not go for mouldings, its like a luxury for an outdoor bar that is 2 years old, and I recut, Im even using the same cut frame fromthe roof and counter top, sort of gives me a drop of pride knowing I didnt have to spend more money to make something look nicer. ( Good for you:D)
I like the idea, Ill draw something and give it a shot, Ill try to post a pic of the cuts on the pine cutoffs, Ill write down each time I use which cutter so Ill remember the sequence if I like the outcome. ( this is a method I sometimes use but have found that I try to trace the profiles on a block of wood or thin piece of 1/4" plywood rather than a worded description. For me it's is more easily understood)

A LESSON IN FUTILITY!!!!!



So I decided either play around with the moulding, give it a shot, or leave it out.(the original bartop doesnt have moulding) (It comes down to that sometimes. :dunno: Hopefully you will begin to chose the "give it a shot" more and more:D)

I finally surrendered to my total lack of talent. (Talent, I think, is a gift you must try to see if you have.:dunno: I believe you are suffering from a lack of proper tools and the knowledge in using them. There is nothing wrong with that! Your enjoyment will help you become much better. We most all start out that way.:type: I remember for so many years thinking to my self, "I am so lucky, I am doing this work, that I like, which I have never done before, and these people are paying me to do it." Awesome!! Dude!! :rofl:)

I fought for 5 hours, skipped lunch,(not that this is a bad thing, I could stand to skip alot of lunches), and decided Im a moron when it comes to this kind of thing, and just decided simple is best. (sometimes simple is best but we need to get you to the place where you decide to leave it simple or really lay on the embellishments ( "Because You Can")! :thumb: Ask and trust in the advice of people you respect. Tod is up at the top for me. His advise is sound. Many folks have different specialties. Don't kick yourself for something you were not born with, like using a router first time! Ever see a 6 year old good with a circular saw? :eek: :rofl: Keep it simple stupid, always good advice for me and wood. May be good advice for now but "Day ain't over yet"!:rofl:

Im not even ashamed of posting how simple my moulding will have to be. It works, does the trick, Ill stain it up, vanish it, and whenever I look at it, Ill remember if I havent purchased my own router table by then, its certainly time.
No laughing please.

I think you are on the path to great success in woodworking.
Shaz :)
 
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the repair service told me the dewalt router is not a good machine.
I believe he suggested my next purchase should be a makita router.
He called any ryobi tool a disposable, and laughed at me when I brought my bosch planer in when I accidently got the cord stuck in the blade and shredded it. I keep him busy at least.

Sounds like he Sells Makitas.:rolleyes: Any Brand can have one that goes bad occassionally. I have several routers, including a Dewalt 325 that I love, two Hitachi M 12v's (one of which the speed module failed and the part alone costs $85), a Rockwell, an OLD Craftsman Commercial, and a couple more I can think of. I've used a lot of Makita tools that I liked, but their routers didn't really impress me.

On your Extension cord question, If you look on the package, most shop type extension cords will have a chart that shows the amps that can be used on the different gguages and lengths of cords. Look at the amps on the tool's label and then look that amperage up on the chart and it will tell you how many feet of a given guage of cord that can be used. All my shop cords are 12 guage, (except for one 10 guage that I made up for certain tools). I am also one that tries to not have to use extension cords except where absolutely necessary, and then I use the shortest cord that will reach the work area.

I agree with the others that you should build your own router table, and it will be a fun project, even if it is a really simple one to start with. Just keep on plugging away at learning and practicing with your router and the skill will come. Not one person anywhere was born with that knowledge, experience or skill, we all had to learn it, and so can you. Ask all the questions you need to.:D
 
I have a dewalt router, the one that came in the kit with 3 bases, plunge, pistol grip etc.....maybe model 626?(not big on model numbers yet), I also picked up a ryobi router, at a garage sale, 30 bucks, I keep a roundover bit in it since thats 80% of my router work on outdoor work, planters, chairs, tables, etc.
I read craigs list every night hoping I find someone selling a router table.
Im not afraid to undertake the project, but Id rather start with one ready made so if I run into problems, I think Id be less ready to blame the table than the skilll level I have.
I think routing skills are like hitting a golfball straight. Lots and lots of practice, best thing is I can turn on the lights in my garage during a blizzard and practice, so Im putting a table on my next purchase list. Hopefully Ill find a used one soon.
If not, Ill have to go and buy one, I need to start practicing.
Thanx for the input.
(I dont use extension cords for the router)


after reading your post robert, like a movitational speaker, I want to get out there right now at midnight and fire up both routers and get to work.
I gotta work tomorrow, but I will apply a second coat of varnish to the bartop and cut the moulding from 3/4 x 3 in oak stock sunday so I can stain and get going on the varnishing. Ill post how it looks when its all cut, stained and finished. Passable I hope.
 
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A friend built a nice bar using that molding, I know it is a Gazillion Dollars per foot and the feet add up pretty fast. I looked at his and contimplated making some, and figured a wide shallow Corebox cut to make the arm rest Large Roundover bit would not be big enough for the curve (or might if you order a BIG one. of course the notch in the back with a dado blade and a lot of hand planing and sanding... $18.00 per foot is about right to make it, including the wood. Rockler has it for a little over $10 per foot but only in short pieces. My friend made a 112 ft bar and had to sell a kidney to pay for it... (well, not really but its late)

As for the extension Cords.... I have used routers and all other power tools with an extension cord w/o any problems for years. I have a friend with a Countertop facility that uses them constantly cutting Corian with routers. They use the retactable cords dangling from high ceilings (rafters) Long cords. Every off site job I ever worked had hundreds of feet of Orange wire all over the place drawing power from a single source. (Before the Battery packs) I would not hesitate to plug mine into the the Christmas tree extension cord, In fact I think I did just that , yesterday, working in the garage. Me thinks you lay too much credit to the numbers and formulas and not enough to the experience and the common practice. But then, That is my humble opinion.
 
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I may be a beginner, but Im no quitter.
I dont have a corebox cutter anywhere near the width I was looking for.
And something that big would be near impossible to hold still I think for me, handheld routing.
What I did figure out: I used a hinge mortising bit, then used the belt sander to flatten and bring it down to level, producing enough curve, then used a large roundover and got pretty much a desired result.
Finally. 20 feet of it.
my result, beats 10 bucks a foot, and Id be real sad if I messed up a cut and wasted some.

and how nicely it will fit, just dont want to work in the rain today,
Like a kid getting his training wheels off for the first time.
Ya gotta love this stuff.
 

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Allen, By Core Box cut, I was referring to a process where you feed the wood diagonally across the Table Saw and in turn you make a wide U shaped cut. If you are not familure we can go into better detail, but I see you worked out you delima quite well, good for you :thumb: Inginuity is the mark of a good craftsman, Good problem solving.
 
Allen, By Core Box cut, I was referring to a process where you feed the wood diagonally across the Table Saw and in turn you make a wide U shaped cut. If you are not familure we can go into better detail, but I see you worked out you delima quite well, good for you :thumb: Inginuity is the mark of a good craftsman, Good problem solving.

Id be interested in a brief description of this cut. I appreciate and take in any and all advice and direction.
I have 2 or 3 corebox cutting bits, small, for sign making using a lettering set.
 
Allen, Bill is referring to a cove cut. Here's one link I found searching for "tablesaw +cove":

http://www.binkyswoodworking.com/CoveMouldingTip.htm

Here's a calculator that claims to help figure out the proper angles:

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/nmw030.asp

And lastly, here's an example of using that kind of cut on something other than molding...from my "box" era...

HPIM2229 800.jpg

You can buy fancy jigs for making cove cuts, but I've just used a couple scrap boards, a few clamps, and a bit of trial and error. The first time you run a board diagonally through the saw blade is a little unnerving, but with proper precautions and push blocks, it's a safe operation.
 
Id be interested in a brief description of this cut. I appreciate and take in any and all advice and direction.
I have 2 or 3 corebox cutting bits, small, for sign making using a lettering set.


Let me Explain..... Read Vaughn's post, pretty much sums it up. Only thing to add is.... lots of passes and slow feed with small incriments in depth of cut, Really as easy as it looks.
 
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