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Yeppers, it's after you do these steps that you know if you should be pursuing the loan. It's not smart business to get a loan and then figure out how to pay it back.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
Beef Question
- Thread starter Travis Johnson
- Start date
Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
Travis Johnson
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I visit www.mytractorforum.com quite a bit, and awhile back I posted about my chainsaw mishap. There is a troll over there that likes to get people fired up, so he wrote something to the effect of "quit being stupid Travis and work safe so you can enjoy your property."
Well it was a foolish statement because I enjoy my property every day. Even though I don't work the land to all its potential, I still enjoy it. I still take care of it,and yes all the woodworking projects I make came from it.
Still large landownership is also a hassle. Its easy to keep track of a few acres, but several hundred is another story. I look at it as having rights and privileges. Many don't own land so its only fair that you allow hunting, fishing, trapping, atvs and snowmobiling. You have to account for the wildlife that are here as well, and manage that.
Managing mankind is problematic as well. Most people are kind, but others rip up your fields with their cars, hunt illegally and yes even grow marijuana crops on your land (this is a real problem actually). Timber theft is another thing I have had to deal with, along with poor crops and disease ridden trees.
All I am saying is that its a blessing and a curse. Many people say "if I had that much land I would..." and go on about what they would do. More power to them and those plans, but if nothing else, this post will clearly show that putting numbers to farming, logging and other related activities, is not without a lot of risk, a lot of investment money, and a lot of hard work.
I doubt anyone really cares, but keep in mind 1% of this nation is farmers, and yet we provide food for the other 99%. Take a look at this link, and as you look out across these silly fields in little old Thorndike and Jackson Maine, keep in mind that they feed some cows that give milk that is sent to a creamery that provides milk for the milkshakes of McDonald's and other fast food stores. It does not matter if you live in Maine or California, these fields have helped produce that Milkshake. As I said, I doubt anyone cares, but when you look at food in that perspective, the dumb farmer doesn't look so dumb after all. Maybe just a little under-appreciated.
Carol Reed
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With Spring planting right around the corner, they will have to get rid of that grain to make room for the new crop at some point in the next few months. That will drop the price of corn...
I am in Nebraska, Travis. Corn country.
What you might need to know is that the corn is already sold, and is being hauled as needed to the ethanol plants, popcorn plants, and cereal plants. So the price has already been established. There may be a few farmers waiting out the market, but the guys around here have already sold it. They're using that money to plant the new crop.
Corn users need to fix the cost of their product, so they pre-buy. Think about the commodities market. This is all about what the price is and what investors think it will be. Start watching that on-line. It's probably on the Wall Street Journal site. There may even be a local site to watch.
And farmers need a more consistent income so they can plan ahead as well. So they pre-sell. Where everybody gets clobbered is the oil prices fluctuating
upward at dizzying speeds. Fuel surcharges will become necessary for farm products just as they are already included in the cost of airline tickets, and the cost of shipping via UPS and FedEX. There is already talk of it in the ag industry.
Maybe a piece of information you didn't have. Don't think the price will drop. At least, I wouldn't plan on it.
And for those of you who buy groceries. Hang on. You ain't seen nothin' yet with price increases!
Real eye opener living out here in corn country.
I am in Nebraska, Travis. Corn country.
What you might need to know is that the corn is already sold, and is being hauled as needed to the ethanol plants, popcorn plants, and cereal plants. So the price has already been established. There may be a few farmers waiting out the market, but the guys around here have already sold it. They're using that money to plant the new crop.
Corn users need to fix the cost of their product, so they pre-buy. Think about the commodities market. This is all about what the price is and what investors think it will be. Start watching that on-line. It's probably on the Wall Street Journal site. There may even be a local site to watch.
And farmers need a more consistent income so they can plan ahead as well. So they pre-sell. Where everybody gets clobbered is the oil prices fluctuating
upward at dizzying speeds. Fuel surcharges will become necessary for farm products just as they are already included in the cost of airline tickets, and the cost of shipping via UPS and FedEX. There is already talk of it in the ag industry.
Maybe a piece of information you didn't have. Don't think the price will drop. At least, I wouldn't plan on it.
And for those of you who buy groceries. Hang on. You ain't seen nothin' yet with price increases!
Real eye opener living out here in corn country.
Travis Johnson
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I don't see that actually. The prices are high, but 6 months ago so was the price of milk. We have been making milk for many generations and one of the many things that have been passed down is this: Milk prices are the leading indicator of a bad economy. Since milk prices include corn, grain, tillable crops and economic swings, it encompasses a lot of stuff. Its price only drops when the other prices drop, and they are slowly dropping now.
You might be right on the farmers pre-selling their crops, but someone is holding onto them. I gleaned that information from the Weekly Agricultural Report given every Sunday morning. Its public knowledge that corn is not being released onto the market, at least that is what I have heard from three separate sources...the Weekly Ag Report last weekend being one of them.
As for the price of food, its going back down I think. Wheat products are up by 230% in one year. Corn, soy and other grains are up as well. The National Resteraunt Association is already complaining and so are American Consumers. I have seen time and time again, that the American Government wants, and will get, cheap food prices. In a nut shell, its more then the economy can bear...and that is going down too.
Of course this is all speculation, and based on my experiences. Unfortunately the trend that seems to be emerging is the late 1970's theme. High grain prices, a rising cost of living and higher fuel costs. Of course what followed the late 1970's was the 1980's...and we all remember how the farmers faired in that decade. As I told the USDA when she asked me why my family stopped raising beef, my answer was quick. "It was the 1980's, everyone got out of farming then." It was humorous because it was true. The farmer suicide rate in the 1980's reached epidemic levels...it was truly sad.
You might be right on the farmers pre-selling their crops, but someone is holding onto them. I gleaned that information from the Weekly Agricultural Report given every Sunday morning. Its public knowledge that corn is not being released onto the market, at least that is what I have heard from three separate sources...the Weekly Ag Report last weekend being one of them.
As for the price of food, its going back down I think. Wheat products are up by 230% in one year. Corn, soy and other grains are up as well. The National Resteraunt Association is already complaining and so are American Consumers. I have seen time and time again, that the American Government wants, and will get, cheap food prices. In a nut shell, its more then the economy can bear...and that is going down too.
Of course this is all speculation, and based on my experiences. Unfortunately the trend that seems to be emerging is the late 1970's theme. High grain prices, a rising cost of living and higher fuel costs. Of course what followed the late 1970's was the 1980's...and we all remember how the farmers faired in that decade. As I told the USDA when she asked me why my family stopped raising beef, my answer was quick. "It was the 1980's, everyone got out of farming then." It was humorous because it was true. The farmer suicide rate in the 1980's reached epidemic levels...it was truly sad.
Curt Fuller
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Norman Hitt
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I just read an article in the paper three or four days ago that said to expect another LARGE increase in corn prices for this year, because besides the additional demand for it for ethanol, the Govt agency that keeps up with the amounts planted said that stocks are already somewhat low, and that the farmers had signed up to plant only about 80%, (IIRC) of the acreage this year that they planted last year. If this is true, it will definitely drive the price up.
Bill Simpson
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I'd stick with cutting down trees and selling the wood. Work your own hours, and fewer Vet bills......
I agree, If you have to ask a bunch of old woodchucks about beef then perhaps you should stay with what brung-ya....
stacey martin
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Travis
The rancher I worked for in high school had a few cows that were Holstein/Black Angus. As far as the cows they were big like a Holstein and onry like a black Angus, you never turned your back to them at calving time. They were always breed to Charolais , nice looking calves. They would feed them to 800 lbs and sell to other feed lots to finish them off. I don't know how they graded out though.
The farm I work for now still has corn but thats because the elevators are full. I think its going to be a couple of years to see what happens to the prices.
I raised some Holsteins a few years ago did OK. Some I just got started and sold them to people who wanted to put them on some pasture that they had for the summer and butchered them come fall. Some of the dairies around here if you get there at the right time they give you the calves just to get rid of them, or charge a few dollars for a Holstein and then you have to take a Jersey calve.
Maybe you could rent out a field every year to a potato farmer. Around here you would get about $600.00 an acer. This year there has been some people offering that much for grass seed ground, I dint see how they can do that with grass seed. Any way good luck with your adventure.
Stacey
The rancher I worked for in high school had a few cows that were Holstein/Black Angus. As far as the cows they were big like a Holstein and onry like a black Angus, you never turned your back to them at calving time. They were always breed to Charolais , nice looking calves. They would feed them to 800 lbs and sell to other feed lots to finish them off. I don't know how they graded out though.
The farm I work for now still has corn but thats because the elevators are full. I think its going to be a couple of years to see what happens to the prices.
I raised some Holsteins a few years ago did OK. Some I just got started and sold them to people who wanted to put them on some pasture that they had for the summer and butchered them come fall. Some of the dairies around here if you get there at the right time they give you the calves just to get rid of them, or charge a few dollars for a Holstein and then you have to take a Jersey calve.
Maybe you could rent out a field every year to a potato farmer. Around here you would get about $600.00 an acer. This year there has been some people offering that much for grass seed ground, I dint see how they can do that with grass seed. Any way good luck with your adventure.
Stacey
Norman Hitt
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Sheesh, I gotta figure out how to ship my 40 acres to Washington and lease it to Potatoe Farmers, 'cause that would sure be better than the $6.00 / Acre we can get for Grazing leases.
Travis Johnson
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Potato farming is tough business that is for sure. We used to have a lot of potato farms here, but they have since died off. We were one of them, planting 5000 acres in the 1930-1950s. Its a tough way to farm...if you have a drought, the potatoes don't get big enough, if you get too much rain, they become too big for potato chips and the Lays plant won't buy them. You can't win either way,and of course potato chips potato are a complete different variety then what most people want for eating potatoes...
As for leasing land, I already do that, leasing 100 acres at 600 dollars a year. That's not one acre at 600 dollars, that is 100 acres for 600 dollars, and I am darn lucky to get that. It figures out to 6 bucks per acre and for tillable ground. Land is not worth much here really.
In some ways this is good news, and in some ways this is bad, but because of Capital Gains Taxes, Social Security and some other issues, my Dad won't be able to sell me the land. He can lease it to me, or just give it to me. Really the later is only fair because at 40 years old he had the land given to him free and clear, so its only fair really to do likewise. I'll still have to do something with it to get it to earn its keep, but I think Beef Cows will work out the best in the long run.
As for leasing land, I already do that, leasing 100 acres at 600 dollars a year. That's not one acre at 600 dollars, that is 100 acres for 600 dollars, and I am darn lucky to get that. It figures out to 6 bucks per acre and for tillable ground. Land is not worth much here really.
In some ways this is good news, and in some ways this is bad, but because of Capital Gains Taxes, Social Security and some other issues, my Dad won't be able to sell me the land. He can lease it to me, or just give it to me. Really the later is only fair because at 40 years old he had the land given to him free and clear, so its only fair really to do likewise. I'll still have to do something with it to get it to earn its keep, but I think Beef Cows will work out the best in the long run.
Travis Johnson
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Yeppers, it's after you do these steps that you know if you should be pursuing the loan. It's not smart business to get a loan and then figure out how to pay it back.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
Vaughn, I agree completely. Now don't take this the wrong way because this defies logic, but you must realize who I am dealing with here. The only way they will grant a Farm Loan is if you can prove without a doubt that you cannot get a loan by any lending institution, and that you are a high risk investment.
What a lot of people don't realize is that the USDA is not in the business of making money on loans...banks and lending institutions do that. They are in the business of ensuring cheap food for the united states and the rest of the world. It sounds silly, but its the truth. My Grandfather once paid off a Farm Loan early and they were like "We have never had one paid off early before." Its along complicated explanation of how and why that all transpired, but preserving farmland and getting cheap food for the American population is what their role is.
As for me, let me explain my position a little better. When Dad's job got done, we were left with a million questions and no answers. In short, my Dad did not plan this very well. Now its up to me to come up with a plan, so I am. Right now I am kind of thinking as I type. I have been working on my Farm Plan all weekend and have a lot figured out. Just a lot more to go.
Travis Johnson
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Its not as easy as it sounds. I got plenty of trees on my own land, but Dad's land is a hodge-podge. Some acres have never been cut, some have been clear cut, and some are in between those two extremes. At the same time, some of those acres are tillable fields, some are pasture,and some are neither woods, fields or pasture. The problem with logging is that cash flow is not as consistent as farming. For instance I cannot get out in the woods from now until the end of May because the frost is out of the ground, the roads are shut down to logging trucks, and its just too darn muddy. At the same time,not every acre I now have is easy to harvest with a tractor. (Distance from a road, terrain, wood species,etc)
Fortunately from now to October, the fields will be green and cows can graze on many of those acres and it could be a money-maker while the woods aren't. I just think it would be a good way to use the land to the full potential.
As for coming to a bunch of woodchucks, that is not the case really. Not to single anyone out, but I know Mickey, MJ, Jon, Steve, Frank and others have, and currently still do, raise beef cows. At the same time I have learned that there are a lot of lurkers on forums and they will chime in...and could very well be beef producers themselves.
Kirk Constable
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Well, I like to eat cows, so thanks for wanting to grow some... I'm glad there are still people out there willing to do it. 
We built our little house on 16 acres Jean's parents own... just enough for them to keep seven or eight cows and a bull as pets. Assuming we outlive them, when her folks are gone so will the cows be... and if I have any say, so will we. This is at least 10 more acres than I care about keeping up with... and 25 miles too far away from town.
We built our little house on 16 acres Jean's parents own... just enough for them to keep seven or eight cows and a bull as pets. Assuming we outlive them, when her folks are gone so will the cows be... and if I have any say, so will we. This is at least 10 more acres than I care about keeping up with... and 25 miles too far away from town.
Bill Lantry
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"Where everybody gets clobbered is the oil prices fluctuating
upward at dizzying speeds. Fuel surcharges will become necessary for farm products just as they are already included in the cost of airline tickets, and the cost of shipping via UPS and FedEX. There is already talk of it in the ag industry.
Maybe a piece of information you didn't have. Don't think the price will drop. At least, I wouldn't plan on it.
And for those of you who buy groceries. Hang on. You ain't seen nothin' yet with price increases!"
Yep, Carol's right. Check this out, hot off the press:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/07/opinion/07krugman.html?hp
But I'm not sure how rising grain prices would help Travis' project? This whole thing sounds like a Jean de Florette scene. Still, there must be a good way for him to keep that land in his family...
Good luck, Travis! We're pulling for you!
Thanks,
Bill
upward at dizzying speeds. Fuel surcharges will become necessary for farm products just as they are already included in the cost of airline tickets, and the cost of shipping via UPS and FedEX. There is already talk of it in the ag industry.
Maybe a piece of information you didn't have. Don't think the price will drop. At least, I wouldn't plan on it.
And for those of you who buy groceries. Hang on. You ain't seen nothin' yet with price increases!"
Yep, Carol's right. Check this out, hot off the press:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/07/opinion/07krugman.html?hp
But I'm not sure how rising grain prices would help Travis' project? This whole thing sounds like a Jean de Florette scene. Still, there must be a good way for him to keep that land in his family...
Good luck, Travis! We're pulling for you!
Thanks,
Bill