Proof!

Hey, folks,

There are those who don't believe me when I say I'm the world's biggest doofus. For those few remaining doubters, I offer the following incident as definitive proof!

So there I am, on a fine saturday morning. I've got big plans for the day of woodworking, but first I need to straighten up the shop. One of the big impediments is numerous large chunks of wood on the floor. Ok, have to process them sometime for the lathe, might as well do them all and get it over with.

So I get a few done, but it's a little slow. So I tell myself ok, try the 3/4" blade. That way I can slice the corners off, turn them all into octagons, and then go back to the smaller blade for final rounding. How long can it take to change the blade? Five, ten minutes?

I change the blade to a 3/4" timberwolf, just to see. Well, what I found is that 14" bandsaws just aren't designed to properly tension a 3/4" blade of that type, even if they *are* named 'Ultimate'. It wasn't cutting straight, so I made it a little tighter. It got better, better... just another turn... and then snap!

At first I thought I'd broken the blade. When the dust settled, I discovered two things had happened at once: first, I'd twisted the knob off the tensioning bolt. Broke off right in my hand. Well, both hands... I was turning it pretty hard. Second, there are two steel bars that hold the tensioning mechanism in place... those both bent completely, and need replacement.

Best of all, I actually rethreaded the nut that holds the long tensioning bolt to the mechanism. Had to put it in the vise to even get it part way off... far enough to get a hacksaw onto the bolt. Of course, to get it that far apart I had to take the upper wheel off, and the upper wheel guard, which also meant both front and rear blade guards, which also meant...

Long story short, I've got a bandsaw that looks like it's been guillotined, with a bunch of parts to order, and a bunch of other parts lying about, and a shop still littered with potential blanks, and some cabinets still unmade, and Doorlink saying "I can't believe you're that strong!" and talking about getting at least one more, and maybe two more, husbands...

So, Now do you believe me? Sheesh!

Thanks,

Bill

I'm a believer!

No, I'm sorry to hear about your issue. Glad to hear you are alright, never know what a machine can really do until something bad happens.

At least she wasn't there saying "See that kids, don't turn out like that!"

Bill, I kinda hate to suggest this, but are you sure the blade was right side up? Were the teeth pointed up or down? This is the Voice of Experience asking the question; I've seen cuts like you described when I've installed the blade upside down. Especially for rough-cutting bowl blanks, I'd think the 3/4" Timberwolf would have been cutting beaucoup straight long before things went 'sproing'. Unless, of course, it was upside down.

And? I have days like that all the time. Here is a sample, Once me a my best freind tried to go gather some logs. It ended up takeing us two hours to go 4 miles.

Vaughn McMillan said:

Bill, I kinda hate to suggest this, but are you sure the blade was right side up? Were the teeth pointed up or down? This is the Voice of Experience asking the question; I've seen cuts like you described when I've installed the blade upside down. Especially for rough-cutting bowl blanks, I'd think the 3/4" Timberwolf would have been cutting beaucoup straight long before things went 'sproing'. Unless, of course, it was upside down.

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I'm still a doubter (mostly because I know myself so well ). However, if it turns out you busted the saw because the blade was in updide down I'll consider you a contender. Maybe we can schedule a "doofus-off".

(Hope it all goes back together for you ok)

Well, I shall just take this as a lesson learned from somewhat else's mistake. Yep, the typically constructed 14" bandsaw is really not capable of applying proper tension to a 3/4" wide blade, but I had been thinking that maybe the Timberwolf blades, which are advertised as requiring less tension, might be an exception. Think I shall forget about ordering one to try out.

Now we'll just have to see if Bill can turn this to his best advantage when you consider Doorlink's response to the incident. This being a family rated forum, I'll not venture further along that line. As to Bill being an absolute Doofus, I'll simply say that he does have a tendency to have "stuff" happen to him. Not Doofus, maybe just some bad karma.

I keep reading that typical 14" bandsaws can't properly tension a 3/4" blade, but I've had success using a couple different ones on my Shop Fox. Don't really know if it was tensioned to what others would consider a proper level, but it cut wood and didn't wander. I gotta say though, that the 3/4" Timberwolf "resaw" blade I tried was a bit underwhelming. It didn't strike me as being any better than my 1/2" Woodslicer. In fact, the Woodslicer leaves a much better-finished cut.

Bill Lantry said:

...So I get a few done, but it's a little slow. So I tell myself ok, try the 3/4" blade. That way I can slice the corners off, turn them all into octagons, and then go back to the smaller blade for final rounding.

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No sure I'm following your logic here, Bill. How does cutting the corners off make rounding them up with a smaller blade any faster? Looks to me like you're adding a step, not reducing time.

Even Timberwolf doesn't recommend using a 3/4" blade on a standard 14" band-saw, at least they advised against it when I talked to them. I have both the 1/2" Timberwolf blade which works great & the Woodslicer which I haven't tried yet.

Bart Leetch said:

Even Timberwolf doesn't recommend using a 3/4" blade on a standard 14" band-saw, at least they advised against it when I talked to them. I have both the 1/2" Timberwolf blade which works great & the Woodslicer which I haven't tried yet.

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since when do you read instructions bart???? the corners being gone would make the next cut alot easir to do with the smaller blade.. but i thought those spinny things made stuff round

larry merlau said:

s...the corners being gone would make the next cut alot easir to do with the smaller blade...

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I still don't see the logic...



Even if the corner cuts went all the way to the line of the circle, it doesn't seem like it'd speed things up at all.

Nope, didn't install it upside down... I did, though, once install a dado blade backwards in an scms. Does that count?

Actually, I'd had that smaller blade installed on the saw for a long time, and was thinking it was maybe getting dull, and this was a way to put off buying an identical one. I also reasoned that the 3/4 inch was "fresh", nearly unused, and therefore not trashed by anything stupid I may have done in the past...

And Vaughn is quite correct, logic does not enter into this, or even into my shop, for that matter...

The reason... whoops, wrong word... the cause of my thinking... whoops, 'cause' implies logic, doesn't it? The antecedent action to my thought of lopping off the corners was that I had just tried to do a full circle, but somehow missed, or the clamps holding the jig must have slipped slightly, so that when I got all the way around, I found that degree 359 was a good 1/4" *inside* degree one... in other words, I was cutting an inward turning spiral instead of an actual circle. Quite embarrassing, really, but further proof! I ended up having to lift the blank out, and cutting through the lemon-peel-like slice of wood.

See, I told you, the more I talk about it, the worse it sounds! The 'Keystone cops' have nothing on 'me in the woodshop'...

Thanks,

Bill

Rennie Heuer said:

Maybe we can schedule a "doofus-off".

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Count me in . I routed two mortises on leg surfaces that didn't need them just yesterday (and no they are NOT where they won't show). This was just a reminder of why I make prototypes when I'm doing something new . There is a big "NO!" on my scratch-pad plans where that mortise ended up to help me not do it on the keeper.

IMHO if you are applyiong enough grunt to the tension tto do that kind of damage, you are over doing by a long shot. Why do you guys apply so much tension, Just enough to make tone when you pluck the blade is all that is necessary, My last shop saw was a 30" Jay Faye & Egan Lighting 500 and it applyed tension with a lever and an 8 pound weight, Just eight pounds of weight applied the tension. If you are having trouble that warrants such tightening to keep the blade in line, then you need to back to basics with the tracking and setup.

As for the thoughts about why to cut the corners before the circle, It would depend on the diameter of the circle, Same effect could be done with relief cuts around the circle allowing freedom for the blade. Small diameter need relief to keep from binding the blade, Larger diameter circles allows the blade more freedom as it is not turning as sharply and the back side doesn't rub.

Back to the 3/4", I would reserve that

So Bill I understand this is April But did you really have to take it this far? Besides that last Tuesday was April fools day not Saturday.

Sorry to hear about your bandsaw woes... we've all done things to our equimpent we wish we had not. btw, I've installed a dado blade backwards also, more than once. Then just yesterday, I took my magic molder off the table saw after making some bead board, then put my regular blade back on, but left that spacer that comes with the magic molder still on the saw. Tightened up the blade, and the plate wouldn't go on over the blade. Sheeeeesh... take off blade, REMOVE large spacer, put back blade...

Doorlink is now convinced that you are a “manly man”. Milk it for all it’s worth!

Bill Lantry said, in part, "Broke off right in my hand. Well, both hands... I was turning it pretty hard."
Methinks "pretty hard" must be a bit of an understatement.
I have used and tensioned 3/4" T'wolf blades on my Ultimate and used with success.

Bart Leech said, in part, "Even Timberwolf doesn't recommend using a 3/4" blade on a standard 14" band-saw, at least they advised against it when I talked to them."
Interesting. When I bought mine, they recommended it and it has worked fine for me. I believe 3/4" blades are on their website chart recommendations also. Must be some individual opinions at Suffolk Machinery.
BTW, I got 3 tooth but will get 4 tooth next time. The three can catch when doing small pieces of wood and I'm too lazy to change blades for one quicky cut.

Frank Fusco said:

Bill Lantry said, in part, "Broke off right in my hand. Well, both hands... I was turning it pretty hard."
Methinks "pretty hard" must be a bit of an understatement.
I have used and tensioned 3/4" T'wolf blades on my and used with success.

Bart Leech said, in part, "Even Timberwolf doesn't recommend using a 3/4" blade on a standard 14" band-saw, at least they advised against it when I talked to them."
Interesting. When I bought mine, they recommended it and it has worked fine for me. I believe 3/4" blades are on their website chart recommendations also. Must be some individual opinions at Suffolk Machinery.
BTW, I got 3 tooth but will get 4 tooth next time. The three can catch when doing small pieces of wood and I'm too lazy to change blades for one quicky cut.

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Why am I seeing this page? buwaaaa time to do something with that web page Frank I went there expecting to see an Ultimate .

Oh I can use a 3/4" blade on my 14" saw but I like using a 1/2-inch blade much better & yes it does tension it better too.

Yes there may be some individual opinions @ Tomberwolf or just maybe someone with smarts enough & guts to stand up & tell the truth.


A quote from Mark Duginske's Band-saw book " A 1/2-inch blade is the widest blade that is practical to use an a consumer-grade band saw. Some owners' manuals claim that a 3/4-inch blade can be used, but do not use a blade this wide on a saw that has wheels less than 18-inches in diameter."

Plus I have seen several posts all the way back to Badger Pond days where people had discussed this topic & claimed that a 14" saw was just not designed to use 3/4" blades on because of its lighter construction & smaller wheels.


This isn't the first broken band-saw post I've seen or collapsed band-saw spring because of trying to tension a 3/4" blade on a 14" band-saw.

Remember the spring isn't there just to tension the blade but also as a buffer so there is a little give & take as the machine is in operation.

"I'm too lazy to change blades for one quicky cut." Do yourself a favor Frank hit a few garage sales & pick up a reasonable 12" saw to keep a smaller blade on you'll wonder why you didn't do this much sooner. I have a 12" Craftsman from the 50's that I have set up with a 1/4" blade just because its quicker to use it than change the 14" saws blade. That & I already had the 12" saw before I purchased the 14" saw.
My 14" saw also has a 1 1/2 HP motor which makes cutting thick material a lot easier.

So Frank do you back the tension off on your blades when you saw is not in use?


Now lets see a picture your Ultimate.