Got me some neander tools!

Alan DuBoff

Former Member (by the member's request)
Messages
711
I won a leg vise on ebay recentely for $25.49. It's actually in better condition than one I paid much more for (but that will is larger and heavier and will fix up nicely as well). Anyway, the seller was the same guy I bought my forge blower from. He tried to sell me some other hammers and tongs before, but I passed as he wanted $150 for them.

He brought them along when I picked up the vise, and I got all of them for $50, so $75 total including the leg vise. The 5th hammer over from the left is a rounding hammer that farriers use, it is a pretty nice hammer in itself. It's the only one I started to clean, but it's a quality hammer. I didn't have any tongs, or rasps, and all those punches can be forged into new tools. There's an odd hoof tool of some such with a guage that looks like a sun dial on the back (sorry it was facing the wrong way when I snap'd the pic). All in all, this brings me closer to being able to safely forge at home.



[NOTE: I've moved this to it's own thread to clean things up]
 
Jesse,

I think I got a decent deal, but it's all relative. A couple pieces make it worth while, and what isn't of use can be forged into something else!;-)

I'm looking foward to forging some hinges, knobs, clasps, and other stuff for my woodworking projects.
 
Fifty bucks? Good deal, I think.

The hammers are worth that!

I'm finding it harder and harder to get good hammers, sure, if I want to pay $200 I can get a good hammer, but.......Well, I don't want to pay $200 for a hammer, I've found some older hammers on auction that just needed cleaning up and or a new handle, and I get them for $5 or so.

How are the bits? Are they straight? I'm always impresses how well a good bit like those can drill a nice hole in heavy wood with just a brace.

Good deal, and the older steel in the tools that you are not going to use, will be good stock for your forging fun :thumb:

Cheers!
 
Stu,

I did clean up a few of the hammers, the rounding hammer seems about the nicest, as I suspected. But I think most of the hammers are good users.



EDIT: Oh, and the augers are pretty straight from what I could tell, but need to be cleaned up as they're pretty dirty and rusted. The tongs will be useful for me also, I didn't have any.
 
Nice haul Alan. Please post pics when you start forging your own tools. I am fascinated with blacksmithing and would love to try is some day.
 
Nice collection of tools, and on the cheap to boot.

I am like you Alan, I have been starting to look into make my own handtools as well, but I think you are light years away from me on actually getting this done.

One of the things that really jump started me was that one of the guys I work with, use to be a Blacksmith and still belongs to the ABANA Club. He is very knowledgable, and eager to share what he knows, so that is always good.

Myself, I would like to get into casting more than forging, only because I am a machinist and I learned how to make nice hand tools from raw castings at Lie Nielsen. I got some ideas brewing on how I am going to make some tools and build a small foundry, but as I said, I am a long way off from anything yet. Good luck to you, and from the score you got with your tools, I would say you have lady luck on your side.
 
Frank, people do refer to leg vises as post vises also, but I tend to think of anything "post" as being attached to the wall, where the leg vise is typically anchored to the floor where the pin on the leg typically fits in. I'm no expert, and have seen others refer to them as post vises as well. I'm thinking in the sense of a post drill for instance, which is mounted on the wall solely. Either way, it's nice to have a vise to hold hot metal! ;)

Travis, I have several folks I work with that are into metal working, one engineer has his own Southbend and Bridgeport lathes in his home shop. Another friend is into milling and is creating a home built cnc type machine using a foredom head attached to a computer. That's an interesting project...

A couple of others have got me to catch the smithy bug, and making tools is an excellent use of it.

It's hard to get setup to do it, you need quite a few tools to do it safely.

I'd like to have a set of chisels that I made myself.

I'm making a patch knife, which Frank will probably be familiar with, as it was used by musket loaders. But it's a small knife that was used to cut cloth patches which formed the gasket between the lead shot and the gunpowder. It was secured on the musket strap in most cases and used to carve up the lead shot as it was poured also.

There was some folks at the local SOOT meeting (Students of Old Technology) talking about making a match lock mechanism to be used on a musket loader.

I was surprised to learn that the old musket loaders were forged and rolled in swages, and then forge welded together.

Lots of stuff can be made for woodworking, like various edge tools, draw knifes, chisels, plane blades, scorps, adze, axe, etc...
 
Alan,
Glad you are happy with what you bought. Perhaps I can help you with what they are. The hammers you picture from picture left to right are a ball pein made into something else(?), a small sledge, ball pein, rounding, nailing (shoes), either a damaged straight pein or a set hammer of some type (the photo and the close up photo are hard to determine at the pointy end. ) If a straight pein it appears a bit blunt. , don't know with a fiberglass handle, and ball pein. The hammer head above on left is a cross pein (most useful in blacksmithing). I would use the fiberglass handled hammer for something else as it will melt when close to hot metal. The rounding hammer should be flat on one side and slightly round on the face on the other. Typically, the round side is a bit heavier so gravity will allow you to turn it just by loosening your grip. If the straight pein is really a set hammer or perhaps its a ground off top swage, it is meant to be put on the metal piece and struck with another hammer. The tongs shown are pretty much all shoeing tongs to hold hot shoes. There is also a nipper for cutting (trimming)off the outside shell of horses hooves. There are some rasps which are probably dull. They will be no good for wood, but ok for hot rasping of metal. At the top of the pic, you show vises, but I don't see a true post or leg vise. The terms are interchangable. The idea is that both jaws are supported by the post rather than one being supported by the screw. The mount to a bench simply keeps it from falling over. This way the vise can accept blows and bending without damage to the screw mechanism. The jaws also will have a spring to push them open as you turn the screw anti-clockwise. I will be happy to answer any other questions if I can.
Have fun with them,
Owen
 
Owen,

I think what I referred to as a straight pein is actually a cutoff, there's some new pics that show the point/cutoff on my site now. If you click the picture, you'll see the leg vise.

I'll take them all to the smithy I'm studying at, and see what the smith thinks I should do to any of them, if anything. The cross pein without a handle is a bit heavy for me, so maybe I'll end up taking some of it off with a grinder and make it lighter. OTOH, can't hurt to have a large hammer!
 
Hey Frank, I am fortunate that where I work, they allow workers full use of their fabrication and machine shop over the weekends. This is one of the reasons I work their to be honest with you.

In any case one of my goals in life is to build my own handplane. Since I got my free course in planemaking at Lie Nielsen, I think I am up to it. (I worked their for 90 days before I realized it was not the place for me).

Unfortunately, where I work we do not have a lot of cast iron, but we do have tons and tons of Stainless Steel. I am thinking about using that to make a plane, something small at first, and then see how things go.

Still, being able to cast my own cast iron plane bodies, and things of that nature would be cool. As I said, I am years away from that, but I enjoy reading and researching stuff almost as much as actually building stuff. I am a firm believer in thinking things through and dreaming stuff up..if only to exercise the mind.

Good luck on your Blacksmithing in any case. I think making your own tooling has got to be the holy grail of woodworking to be honest with you.
 
Good luck on your Blacksmithing in any case. I think making your own tooling has got to be the holy grail of woodworking to be honest with you.
I couldn't agree more. No way to get a tool just right for yourself by making it yourself, for yourself.:thumb: at least you get no excuses on why the tool isn't perfect...;)

I'd like to make a handplane or two myself. Would probably opt for a woodie and make the blade and/or chip breaker and/or screw-cap/lever.
 
Frank, people do refer to leg vises as post vises also, but I tend to think of anything "post" as being attached to the wall, where the leg vise is typically anchored to the floor where the pin on the leg typically fits in. I'm no expert, and have seen others refer to them as post vises as well. I'm thinking in the sense of a post drill for instance, which is mounted on the wall solely. Either way, it's nice to have a vise to hold hot metal! ;)

Travis, I have several folks I work with that are into metal working, one engineer has his own Southbend and Bridgeport lathes in his home shop. Another friend is into milling and is creating a home built cnc type machine using a foredom head attached to a computer. That's an interesting project...

A couple of others have got me to catch the smithy bug, and making tools is an excellent use of it.

It's hard to get setup to do it, you need quite a few tools to do it safely.

I'd like to have a set of chisels that I made myself.

I'm making a patch knife, which Frank will probably be familiar with, as it was used by musket loaders. But it's a small knife that was used to cut cloth patches which formed the gasket between the lead shot and the gunpowder. It was secured on the musket strap in most cases and used to carve up the lead shot as it was poured also.

There was some folks at the local SOOT meeting (Students of Old Technology) talking about making a match lock mechanism to be used on a musket loader.

I was surprised to learn that the old musket loaders were forged and rolled in swages, and then forge welded together.

Lots of stuff can be made for woodworking, like various edge tools, draw knifes, chisels, plane blades, scorps, adze, axe, etc...

Can't help myself, gotta pick nits. :eek:
First, your explanation of 'post' and 'leg' makes sense. From here on, I dub my vice a 'legger'. ;)
Yes, I am familiar with patch knives, have more than just a couple.
But, folks who are not familiar with old guns do tend to call all muzzle loaders 'muskets'. Jest ain't so.
Any firearm that loads from the front (muzzle) end is a "muzzle loader". Some are rifles and some are smoothbores. Usually smoothbores designed for military use are referred to as "muskets". Some might debate that calling all smoothbores muskets.
Those with rifled barrels are, of course, rifles. (as you get closer to the Civil War days, that explanation gets complicated, I'll just leave it with the pre-1840 styles)
So, strange types, like me that enjoy shooting the old style guns are generally referred to as 'muzzle loaders'. (behind our backs the call us lot stranger things ;) )
As for those guys considering making a matchlock, please have them get in touch with a club of experienced muzzle loaders before venturing on the project. Matchlocks are inherently very dangerous instruments. So dangerous, in fact, that few are ever seen at reenactments. The risk isn't worth the interest.
If they cannot locate a club, contact me again and I'll try to point them in the right direction. In the meantime, advise them to put the project on hold, it just isn't worth someone getting hurt.
 
I couldn't agree more. No way to get a tool just right for yourself by making it yourself, for yourself.:thumb: at least you get no excuses on why the tool isn't perfect...;)

I'd like to make a handplane or two myself. Would probably opt for a woodie and make the blade and/or chip breaker and/or screw-cap/lever.

Lie Nielsen has a new line of "Floats" they just started making that is designed specifically for making wooden hand planes. I no longer work for LN so I this is not an ad for them by any means, but I don't know of anyone else that is making them so I present this here to those that are interested in wooden plane making.

Myself (as a Machinist) I have not researched wooden planes much because, well I am more into the marriage of wood and steel. Its more in line with how my career/ hobby has worked out over the years. Work up steel by day, work wood at night.
 
Can't help myself, gotta pick nits. :eek:
First, your explanation of 'post' and 'leg' makes sense. From here on, I dub my vice a 'legger'. ;)
Didn't mean to twist your thinking, but that's how I think of it. Mostly I do see them listed as leg vises, but occasionally will see them listed as post vises. More common is for them to be called a blacksmith vise, even in older texts and books on blacksmithing.
Yes, I am familiar with patch knives, have more than just a couple. But, folks who are not familiar with old guns do tend to call all muzzle loaders 'muskets'. Jest ain't so.
I only called it a muzzle loader as that is how they referred to it as, I'm not a very big gun collector or anything.
As for those guys considering making a matchlock, please have them get in touch with a club of experienced muzzle loaders before venturing on the project. Matchlocks are inherently very dangerous instruments. So dangerous, in fact, that few are ever seen at reenactments. The risk isn't worth the interest.
The guy who runs the SOOT is a big gun collector and cannons as well. He has a pic of the matchlock gun on the yahoo site, but I can't seem to get a pic from there.

You can see it by going to this page on yahoogroups and clicking on photos.

Students Of Old Technology
 
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