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Thread: Planer or jointer

  1. #1
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    Planer or jointer

    I have a 13" Dewalt planer - we all know what a planer will do, make a bowed board thinner and still bowed.

    I want to start making cutting boards - will a jointer help me get a flat edge on my boards to help in my gluing up. I guess I already know that the answer is yes, now I show my ignorance.

    I have a chance to buy a 6 1/8 inch Ryobi Planer-Jointer model #JP155 for $100.00 - It appears to be in excellent shape with very little use.

    I have attempted to run several pieces through that were 3/4 to 1 1/2 thick and ended up with a wedge shape
    board.

    I have never used a jointer before - is it me or the jointer.

    Thank you
    Jiggs Elphison

  2. #2
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    Jiggs, it sounds like the jointer you were using was not set up properly. There is some technique involved, but if you're getting wedges, then it sounds like the two tables on the jointer (infeed and outfeed) are not coplanar to each other. Try searching Google for "jointer setup" and you'll see a lot of information about getting them set up right.

    I've not seen the Ryobi jointer, but from what I've read it's a decent benchtop machine. Not well-suited for long boards, but it sounds like a decent deal for $100. (You could probably sell it for that when you move up to a bigger one.)

    That said, I can count on one hand the number of times I've jointed my boards for a cutting board. With a decent table saw blade (I use the mid-level Freud blades) on a carefully adjusted table saw, I've always been able to go straight from the saw to glue-up.
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Hunter S. Thompson
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  3. #3
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    Planer or Jointer

    I just purchased a new Steel City 10' Hybrid table saw - had a little problem ripping hard woods, maple, tiger wood, purple heart etc Kept bogging down and burning.

    Found that the 20 amp breakers in the 100 amp box was not sufficient power. So I'm having a separate line run into my garage (my shop) next week.

    I've been using and have always used a Frued Diablo 40 tooth general purpose blade. I switched to a Tenryu Rapid-Cut multi purpose 24 tooth blade. Even with the existing electrical I have eliminated the burning.

    I guess my cuts are flat but seem to be bowed - guess I was trying to eliminate the clamping pressure - make sense - no, well not to me either.

    Jiggs Elphison

  4. #4
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    To get a flat edge, you also have to have a flat face so the edge is exactly 90 from the face. The jointer is the best tool for flattening a face, but your planer can do it with the help of a sled. A TS can straighten an edge with the help of some sort of a reference edge against the fence...like a piece of plywood, but the face still needs to be fairly flat to the 90 reference edge, a TS won't flatten the face.
    Got Wood?

  5. #5
    Your method of feed can have a great effect on your wedges. Begin the feed and apply pleanty of down pressure with the forward hand. Keep that pressure (by the way you are using push blocks to keep from gnawing off your fingers) once you have passed over the cutterhead and the throat of the joiner, apply all downward pressure on the outfeed table only push on the infeed table the work will confornm to the table that you apply pressure, it may lift the tail if the the two tables are not on the same plane. I doubt that is the problem as most comer from the factory on plane and few ever wear out. I suspect it is a procedural problem.

    some fellows want to blame the equipment for their misgivings but more than not it is man made error rather than machine error.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggs Elphison View Post
    I have a 13" Dewalt planer - we all know what a planer will do, make a bowed board thinner and still bowed.

    I want to start making cutting boards - will a jointer help me get a flat edge on my boards to help in my gluing up. I guess I already know that the answer is yes, now I show my ignorance.

    I have a chance to buy a 6 1/8 inch Ryobi Planer-Jointer model #JP155 for $100.00 - It appears to be in excellent shape with very little use.

    I have attempted to run several pieces through that were 3/4 to 1 1/2 thick and ended up with a wedge shape
    board.

    I have never used a jointer before - is it me or the jointer.

    Thank you
    Jiggs Elphison
    If your saw is set up right... really right... you don't need an edge jointer. I rarely edge joint.

    For face jointing, you are making the first side flat. Just flat, no relation to the second side. Then the planer makes the second side exactly parallel to the first. So if the first side is bowed, the planer is doing a perfect job on making the second side bowed. But if your first side is perfectly flat, on the jointer, I will bet on the work of the planer.

    A jointer looks like a trivial machine, but it is one of the machines that is most dependent on operator skill. Focus on the first side straight and flat. Then worry about the second side. A skilled operator may see how to get the best use of the wood (no trapezoids) when making the first side flat, but that is not he job of the jointer... just flat.
    Charlie Plesums, Austin Texas
    (Retired early to become a custom furnituremaker)
    Lots of my free advice at www.solowoodworker.com

  7. #7
    I dson't know how the tables are set on the machine, but as a general statement I believe 90%+ of jointing problems are from technique rather than equipment.

    A jointer's a dead simple machine in itself, but one that requires far more "touch" than a table saw for instance. I bought a 6" Ridgid jointer 4 years ago and it was advertised, and was, correctly set up at the factory in terms of the table heights. I haven't touched the adjustments and it still works fine. The "problems" I've had fall into 2 categories: downward pressure, and support on the board itself.

    I believe only minimal pressure is needed for it to work best. Just enough to keep the board from hopping up and down as it passes over the knives. It's kind of hard to describe, but when jointing narrow boards the only pressure I need is that exerted by my thumb. No more. Too much pressure can actually bow the wood in some cases. And you want the wood to just pass over the knives of its own accord, removing variations in a number of passes, rather than one pass. And I've learned to slow down the feed of the board, making it easier to keep consistant pressure. And to not try to take too much off with each pass.

    The longer the board is, the more opportunity for the far end to "sag" on either the infeed or outfeed side. For instance, I was jointing 7/8th oak that was about 9-10" wide and 7 feet long. There was so much weight hanging off the tables at the beginning or end of the feed that it was easy to have a "belly" in the middle - a concave line, if you will. The workpiece that size really needs some support on the ends in both infeed and outfeed.

    From the sounds of it, it's your first jointing experience, and I don't think very many people get the "touch" down right off the bat. By all means check the table set up, and if they're right, it's all in the technique. Takes some time to get that right.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Plesums View Post
    If your saw is set up right... really right... you don't need an edge jointer. I rarely edge joint.
    I'm with Charlie on this one. I get glue-ready surfaces with my 24T Lietz TK Rip on my 22124 which is a close cousin of your SCTW. I used to run on a shared (with a couple overhead lights) 20a 110v circuit. I was going to switch the saw to 220v but after installing a sub-panel and a dedicated 20a circuit, it cuts like a much more powerful saw.

    If your pieces are bowed enough from stress relief to cause issues, you'll want to check some things. I would look into allowing the lumber to acclimate for a longer period before milling. If you let your lumber set stickered for 3 or 4 weeks and still have excessive problems when you cut, you may want to consider a different source for your material to see if the yard isn't handling it correctly. Some wood just "relaxes" when cut but this shouldn't be the norm.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 04-19-2008 at 03:28 PM.
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
    - Arthur C. Clarke

  9. #9
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    I think art of your question is "Should I buy this tool?"

    If the $100 is a budgetary limitation and will be the difference between having a jointer or not having a jointer for quite some time, then I personally would definitely consider buying the jointer, especially if the current owner would be willing for you to verify coplanarity / equipment setup and let you bring a little more wood to check with your new knowledge of technique.

    However, if you could afford (cash and space) a bit more, I would recommend a stationary jointer. The beds are longer, which means you can joint longer boards.

    I have the Ridgid 6 1/8" jointer and am quite happy with it. Right now, Home Depot has a power tool sale so you would get $60 off the purchase price for a total cost of $340 (plus taxes, etc).

    Regarding the power issues, if possible, I would try to use the saw on 220V. I have switched everything that can be switched to 220V in my shop. The total amperage is spread out over two lines, so each wire only carries half the amps as on 110V. This way I don't have issues running the DC, ambient air cleaner and my big tools. Not to mention that my main saw is 220V only.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by Mark Kosmowski; 04-20-2008 at 02:29 AM.

  10. #10
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    Mike has the procedure absolutely correct. Too much pressure will flatten the board and defeat the purpose of making one side flat. When a board is Bowed, you definitely need both Infeed support AND outfeed support that is the same height of the infeed and outfeed tables and they should be long enough so the full length of the board is supported on either the jointer bed or the support/bed extension, or wedging will occur on one end or the other. I wish I knew how to draw on this to show you what happens as a board goes across a jointer with short beds, but I don't. Somewhere on the net I saw an excellent pictoral explanation of this, but I just cannot remember where it was.

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