Tuned up my Stanley "Sweet Heart", however...

Hi All,

I got out the books and the papers and the articles and I tuned up my ancient Stanley Sweet Heart jack/bench plane. It is in good condition (that is not "good" as a technical description, but better). The steel is fine, the wood is fine, there is no rust what-so-ever, the blade is true, all of the Japaning (I think that is the right name for the metal finish) is all intact, etc.

I have the frog flush with the sole.
I have the cap iron 1/16" from the cutting edge.
I have the bevel down.
The lever cap seats well.
Everything is square with the sides of the plane.
You could shave with the blade (thanks to WorkSharp 3000...not my skills).

The problem is that the rubber does not meet the road...The blade does not reach the wood by a couple thousandths.

If I move the frog it won't line up with the throat to support the iron.
If I move the blade down it will extend beyond the cap iron the recommended 1/16".
I have the depth adjustment wheel turned to the maximum depth...there isn't any more to adjust.

I hate to sound so dumb...however, it appears that is the way it is.

The throat gap is a line thickness less than 1/8". That seems like the Grand Canyon to me.

I don't know if it helps but: Sole length = 13 5/8", Sole width 2 1/2".

I believe that the correct expression here is, "HELP."

Enjoy,

Jim
 
Jim,

Any way we can get you to post a couple of pictures. Might help someone on the group to see something that could help.
 
Hi All,

...The blade does not reach the wood by a couple thousandths.

If I move the blade down it will extend beyond the cap iron the recommended 1/16".

Jim, if you're only shy by a couple thou., I'd go ahead and adjust the cap iron back a little. I have no idea how far my irons extend past the cap. I just got them set where they work. If you can get some good pics that may help.
 
Makes me wonder what someone may have done with this plane in the past. The thing's i'd look for:
1 - I wonder if the chip breaker has been swapped out with one from another plane with different geometry.
2 - i wonder if the yoke (lever piece that slips over the adjustment knob at one end, is pinned to the frog in the middle, and has a finger that engages the chip breaker at the other end) is bent. If someone adjusted the lever cap too tight and tried to adjust the cutter depth, it's likely the yoke may have bent or broken off. This was such a common problem with the hinged lever cap Millers Falls planes that they replaced the cast iron yokes with steel ones.
3 - If the yoke was broken, perhaps someone installed the new one backwards during reassembly
4 - maybe the chip breaker was shortened at some point. Grinding off the leading end would be easy enough to do and would throw off the geometry for proper adjustment.

A photo or two of the yoke installation and the chip breaker might help us isolate the problem.

Paul Hubbman
 
Hi,

Photos attached. I should have cleaned the plane first. The brown stuff is not rust. I was planing Masonite. I did it with the iron sticking down further than what the books say.

If you need any more info or photos don't even think of hesitating to ask.

Thanks a million.

Enjoy,

Jim

I don't see the photos. Will try again.
 
Last edited:
I would say just run that blade down further and try it and see if works. If so, find a new chip breaker. I don't think that being set exactly right it that critical, especially for someone just starting out. I just eyeball mine.
 
Last edited:
First off, it looks to me like the frog is set back too far. Given that the blade bevel is down, the ramp on the back of the mouth is not really gonna support much anyway. It is also more important to close up the mouth in front of the cutting iron than it is to have the little added support you'll get from the back of the mouth.

Looks like there is a lot of blade protruding on top, but can't tell much about the distance from the end of the slot in the blade to the cutting end of the blade. Could the blade be borderline of wearing out?

It also looks like there might be a gap under the frog in the two pics showing the frog without the cutter.

Try exposing more blade at the end of the chip breaker.
 
Hi to all of you who responded to my bench plane dilemma,

When I originally set up the plane by guess and by gosh (what looked logical to me with no woodworking experience to speak of), it worked. Then I started reading articles, books, etc. on planes and set it up “by the book.”

The book showed that the iron should come down the frog and into the throat. It showed that the frog and the throat should be in alignment, “to prevent chatter.” That’s when the blade would no longer reach the wood.

Paul Hubbman had me check to see that the frog seated well on the sole casting. The ground areas where the frog mates with the sole look original and are in excellent shape. The frog sets about 1/8” above the sole at the front however. He also had me look at the chip breaker to be sure it was seated across the iron. It has been ground and fits perfectly.

Tod Evans said that the blade position on the frog is determined by the placement of the chip breaker and that this alone is what will give me cutting depth control. If I extend the cutting iron out further than the 1/16” I can plane wood. That’s what I did when I wrote the “Yipee” thread. I was doing OK before I read too much. I should have corresponded with Jeff Horton sooner.

The plane looks like it had excellent care. There are no dinks, rust or bent pieces as near as I can tell. I can’t be sure but I think all parts are original.

Jerry Palmer said that the frog looked too far back. I did that so that the frog would line up with the throat, like the book said. I think that the blade is long because the plane was not used much. There is a 1/8” gap above the sole at the front of the frog. The ground surfaces of the frog sit beautifully on the ground surfaces of the sole.

Anyway it all adds up to: I will extend the blade a bit further. I will clean the plane. I will give it another “Go.”

So far I have done nothing except dust the plane. What can I clean it with that won’t ruin the original finish? I don’t want to mess up the Japaning (I hope that is the correct word.). The steel has a nice soft patina to it that really looks nice, however I would mess that up if it would help. The finish on the front knob is a little irregular...something like being stored in a hot garage too many years. Should I leave it original or refinish?

I am enclosing some more photos, just in case.

I am also sure that you are all tired of this subject by now so I won’t bug you again unless I get totally desperate.

Enjoy,

Jim
 
I have some simple advice. If it works, the heck with what the Pro's, amateurs or even myself say. Get it to work and use it. Then you might want to tweak it a bit as you learn more, but the goal is to make chips and so what it it isn't set up "perfect".

This sounds like a case of having it perfect and trying to make it better. :)
 
Last edited:
Jim,

Are you setting the frog back so the bevel of the iron is supported by the sole of the plane? If so, move the frog up so the flat part of the iron, same side as the bevel, lines up with the back of the throat. I think this will resolve the issue and you can again set the chip breaker to 1/16". Hope this helps.
 
Unless you get into using some really nasty caustic stuff, shouldn't be any problem with harming the japaning. You can use WD40 as a cleaner or something mildly acidic like a citrus cleaner or even lemon juice. Mineral spirits works pretty good, too. An old toothbrush works pretty good for scrubbing out hard to reach areas. For that stuff that looks like rust on the bare metal parts, some 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper will clean that up. You can use any of the other cleaners mentioned above with the sandpaper. If you use an acidic cleaner, you need to coat it pretty quickly thereafter with some sort of oil or the rust will come back real quick. I use medicinal mineral oil as it is cheap, does not go rancid, nor does it dry out like BLO. It also has no ill affects if some rubs off onto the wood you're working. In fact, I used to use it to lube the soles of plane during use. Parafin seems to last better for that so I switched.

BTW, I thought the main reason for forums was to help each other out, so keep the questions coming. Chances are there are others out there with the same questions that are too shy to ask.
 
Last edited:
I'm with Jeff - get it to work for you, then tweak it as you learn more.
Two things do look odd to me on your photos, though. Others mentioned them, but i thought i'd say it again anyway. In the picture, the frog looks like it's set back from the throat. Also, the gap between the front edge of the frog and the sole casting should not be there. It looks like a factory defect, but the frog should seat firmly both at the leading edge and at the machined "step" up in the casting further back. If i had the time, i'd work on the bottom surface of the frog with a mill file to adjust the angle down to let it bear as it should.
have fun with it.
Paul Hubbman
 
Looking at the frog, it seems to me that the lateral lever is NOT a Stanley. It looks like it is one piece with a twist at the end - Stanley levers have a 2 piece end, and IIRC, are stamped "Stanley" along the length. If it isn't a Stanley frog, then it would explain why the frog doesn't seem to fit. I think before you take a file to any part, you should see if you can find another Stanley plane just to compare yours with. Perhaps you can find one in an antique shop or connect with another woodworker.

Just my $.02.

Ken
 
Hi Ken,

Thanks for the input.

The lateral lever does have a "U" shaped bend in it. This is used to push the lever from side to side. It is rivited to the frog. The rivit shows NO sign of tampering. The "ground" seats on the frog and the sole match in design and surface. They both had the very slightest amount (less than a hair width) of the original finish that seeped into the junction. Like an idiot I ran a razor blade across the ground areas to remove the stuff.

None of the ground surfaces have been touched with a file. In fact it does not look like any part of the frog has been touched with a file. Some of the finish has been worn away by the blade being inserted and removed.

Everything seems original and fits like expected except that there is a gap between the frog and the sole at the very tip of the frog. It could have been manufactured that way. The latest day the Sweet Heart planes were manufactured was 1935 from what I have read. Could this have been a design factor for this model in that era? Jeepers, I can see how you guys and gals can get all wound up in this Old Iron thing.

The plane came from my father. He died something like 30 years ago at the age of 94. He used the plane; it was not a decoration. I don't see him trading out one part for another. He was more the type of, if a tool won't work correctly, go buy another new tool. While not rich, he was better off than most people. He would not purchase used. He would purchase what he thought was best. He taught me to buy the best you can afford. If you buy cheap, you will buy another, better one later. Why not buy the good one to start with and save the money you would have wasted on the cheapie.

I don't know where to see other planes to compare. How does one do this?

Enjoy,

Jim
 
Hi Jim,
Sorry if I seem to be nit picking. To compare planes, you could find an old tool dealer [do they exist in So Cal?] and bring your plane in and look at them side by side; or find another woodworker who is afflicted by planeaholism [like me] and look at his/hers.

From all I've read on this thread, I think you need to decrease the distance between the end of the blade and the end of the cap iron. That should allow the blade to protrude from the sole.

Good luck,
Ken
 
Don't shoot . . .

me if I'm wrong OK ? Yes, the frog looks like its too far back. But from your images I'm wondering if there is to much space between the frog sides and the body. Also ( it might be the image or just my eye sight ! ) your adjuster knob looks funny. The inside looks beveled inwards. Wrong frog ?

OK, go ahead and shoot. :)
 
Hey, Jim.

David Christopher was the plane guru when I was teaching at Palomar. I believe he lives in or near Del Mar. Why not contact some one at the woodworking program at Palomar and see if you can make a connection?
 
Top