Veneering processes?

Al killian

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Floydada, Tx
I have in the past used contact cement for doing veneers, how ever I have been told that this should not be used.:dunno: So what I am looking for is how you do veneering that will not fit in a bag. Also what type of glue you use. Have been thinking of useing some plastic resin and some weight to see how that works. OK back to the shop for more wireing.:wave:
 
How big is the panel you need to veneer. If it's small, I use a couple of torsion boxes. If it's big, you can't beat a bag.

Glue choices are also affected by the size. If it's small, standard yellow glue on the substrate only will work. If it's big, yellow glue is too fast and you'll need something with more open time. Urea formaldhyde is good. See Joe Woodworker for some glue.

Do not use contact cement unless the veneer is paper backed.

Mike
 
Mike, The first peice will be a secetry(sp?) desk roughly 18" deepx 30" high x 30" long, plus the three drawer fronts. The other peice will be a top to a vanity, which is about 2'x 15" and two small drawers. I am planning on trying some plastic resin glue to see how that works.
 
mornin` al!
like mike says you can do it with torsion boxes-n-clamps.....but why?
if you don`t have a large enough bag cost out what building torsion boxes would run vs buying a cheap vinyl bag...i`ll bet the bag will be cheaper and i know that it`d last for more than one glue-up.
avoid contact cement for all wood veneers....even paperbacked, if you use solvent based finishes you stand a chance of weakening the glue bond and getting bubbles.
from your post i gather that you have a vacuum pump?
here`s a 2`x4` from joe woodworker for 100$
http://www.veneersupplies.com/produ...=2708&osCsid=7b358b19ba872920debf443825a7ba76
and on the clearance rack at qualityvak there`s a 13"x60" vinyl for 20$
http://www.qualityvak.com/clearance.html

as for glue....i use plain ol` yellow glue for 95% of my stuff....but if you want more open time urea glue is good. dap/unibond/ or an industrial glue such as DR from national casein.
seaming and flattening are going to be the biggest hurdles for the first time veneer`er.......so do a practice run without glue before you do your glue-up..
 
Trying to be helpful...

curved cauls and a couple of clamps make a great press. :wave::thumb:


top and bottom:

009_9.jpg



or on top if you have a flat rigid surface:

012_12.jpg



no power tools needed.:)
 
I wish there was a vacuum pump in my shop. That is on the short list of things to buy. How big of a pump would you recommend? I rather buy one that will last for many years rather then have to upgrade do to lack of power/sucktion. Thanks again for the the help.
 
mornin` al!
like mike says you can do it with torsion boxes-n-clamps.....but why?
if you don`t have a large enough bag cost out what building torsion boxes would run vs buying a cheap vinyl bag...i`ll bet the bag will be cheaper and i know that it`d last for more than one glue-up.
avoid contact cement for all wood veneers....even paperbacked, if you use solvent based finishes you stand a chance of weakening the glue bond and getting bubbles.
from your post i gather that you have a vacuum pump?
here`s a 2`x4` from joe woodworker for 100$
http://www.veneersupplies.com/produ...=2708&osCsid=7b358b19ba872920debf443825a7ba76
and on the clearance rack at qualityvak there`s a 13"x60" vinyl for 20$
http://www.qualityvak.com/clearance.html

as for glue....i use plain ol` yellow glue for 95% of my stuff....but if you want more open time urea glue is good. dap/unibond/ or an industrial glue such as DR from national casein.
seaming and flattening are going to be the biggest hurdles for the first time veneer`er.......so do a practice run without glue before you do your glue-up..
I don't disagree with Tod at all. I will point out why I use torsion boxes on small glue-ups, however. I have a very small shop (10'x11') so when I want to use my vacuum bag I have to do a major reconfiguration of my shop. So if the glue up is smaller than about 24"x24" I use a couple of torsion boxes that I already have. Of course, I have to store the torsion boxes which is a different problem:). There's just no easy answer for us small shop people.

My shop is so small, I have my vacuum pump on a shelf about 8' up and have wired it to a switch so I can turn it off and on. See pixs. I also use the vacuum pump for vacuum chucking on my lathe.

Mike
 

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I wish there was a vacuum pump in my shop. That is on the short list of things to buy. How big of a pump would you recommend? I rather buy one that will last for many years rather then have to upgrade do to lack of power/sucktion. Thanks again for the the help.

al, a pump/bag/filter/line ect. for a small system will set you back several hundred.........follow mike or craigs advice unless you have need for the vacuum?......if you do then bang for the buck the 220v gast pump from surplus center;
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008051513324725&item=4-1540&catname=
is the best deal going!
 
...My shop is so small, I have my vacuum pump on a shelf about 8' up and have wired it to a switch so I can turn it off and on. See pixs. I also use the vacuum pump for vacuum chucking on my lathe.

Mike
I couldn't help but chuckle when I saw the cord wrapping posts on the nice vacuum pump setup you made. Something tells me you didn't originally plan to have it up on the shelf. ;) Nice rig, though. :thumb:
 
I couldn't help but chuckle when I saw the cord wrapping posts on the nice vacuum pump setup you made. Something tells me you didn't originally plan to have it up on the shelf. ;) Nice rig, though. :thumb:
Thanks. Nope, it was definitely intended to be a portable! However, reality has a nasty way of intruding.

Besides all the other issues, I had the problem of where to store it when I wasn't using it. This solved most of the problems.

Mike

PS - it is screwed down in case of an earthquake.
 
I guess I'll be the contrarian just for fun. I have used contact cement with great success, but only recommend it with one of two products -- Wood on Wood veneer (basically a mini plywood) -- or -- phenolic backed veneer. Both of those provide enough barrier between the veneer and any solvent based finished, and they also prevent the lumpy or bubbly effect that can cause fits when using contact cement with veneers. And of course the advantage of speed and no need for any clamping system. That said, for my shop cut veneers contact cement would be a horrible choice. My glue of choice is always epoxy with a touch of micro filler to help prevent bleed through. Urea glues are great, too, in my experience, but the shelf life stinks so I don't keep it in the shop. My epoxy resin will be good 70 years from now.
 
I have used West System since it was the first one I was introduced to all those years ago. I have tried System Three once at another shop and it seemed a comparable product.
 
if you go with the system three the general purpose resin with the #2 hardener will give you 30 min. if you need longer use the #3 hardener -don"t use the t88 to thick ,though the t88 is the glue that i use for most glue ups- titebond is the other that i use around the shop and is what i use for veneer-as for it being to fast i thin it with a little water (very little-not more than 10%) also thined you can put it on with a little paint roller if its something big.
iv'e never tried to vacuum bag veneer - i built the press shown below -it's 8ft. long and 30in. wide the nine racks are free to slide back and forth so they can all be bunched together- it's the 27 headed monster.
DSCF0025-3.jpg


rounding off the sharp corners
alex
 
Wow Ed, that is a brute. It looks like ti would almost take 10 minutes to screw them all down.

I just orderd some cuals and going to go with this route for now, seeing how most of what I do is reveneering of dressers and desk. Will have some pics by tuesday. Thanks all for the help.
 
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