How Hard is Hard

the guy in the tools department(home depot) told me that all the carbide bits for the routers are made by union carbide, and that all the manufacturers are similar qualtiy. I found that hard to believe, even though the guy is about 80, says hes been around power tools forever,
They specialize in Ryobi bits, and porter cable I believe.
 
the guy in the tools department(home depot) told me that all the carbide bits for the routers are made by union carbide, and that all the manufacturers are similar qualtiy. I found that hard to believe, even though the guy is about 80, says hes been around power tools forever,
They specialize in Ryobi bits, and porter cable I believe.

Seventy years ago, when he started, that might have been true. But with all the stuff coming from Japan, China, India and places we can't pronounce, I also find that highly unlikely.
 
the guy in the tools department(home depot) told me that all the carbide bits for the routers are made by union carbide, and that all the manufacturers are similar qualtiy. I found that hard to believe, even though the guy is about 80, says hes been around power tools forever,
They specialize in Ryobi bits, and porter cable I believe.
I find that hard to believe, also, for a couple of reasons. I doubt if Union Carbide is the only maker of carbide in the world. I'm sure that China and other countries have carbide manufacturers also, and like eveything, the quality depends on the material that goes in, and the process that's used to make it.

Second, the technology of carbide has continued to improve. Carbide tools are actually made of grains of carbide bonded together with cobalt. The size of the grains has gotten significally smaller over time (micro-carbide).

All carbide is not the same, and therefore all carbide router bits are not the same quality. Even anecdotally, many people report different performance with different brands of the same profile router bit. While not science, they can't all be wrong.

Mike
 
I was just ordering some bits from CMT and noticed on the flyleaf of their big product catalog that the Carbide they use has a Rockwell hardness of 92. No wonder carbide tools don't sharpen easily.

Gary Curtis

Router bits are hard. Where I work its hard to get tooling unless it can be billed directly to a project, so specialty bits like Round Overs and Cove Bits are very hard to get. So I have been using router bits I have from home. As Jeff says, they are hard;and as long as they don't experience vibration or chatter, they hold up well.

Now keep in mind they are in a Bridgeport and gnawing away on stainless steel. That is a pretty impressive feat for the lowly ol router bit. :thumb:
 
On the inside cover of their catalogue, CMT names the Swiss steel company that manufactures their micrograin carbide. Freud also names theirs. An English company I buy from (HSS not carbide) names the steel company in Sweden where they buy. So the guy at Home Depot simply hasn't been exposed to the variety that a wood snob --- yes, I admit it -- like me has seen.

Ron Hock on a trip to his little factory told me his most reliable source for quality steel is France. Though I am new, I can tell the difference in sharpening HSS and Carbide. The latter is simply no fun. But an Hc of 92 is a sobering number.

Gary Curtis
 
I wouldnt argue with a guy thats his age and a subject I know nothing about.
I wouldnt attempt to discuss with him that simply because something comes from the same facility, it doesnt necessarily mean its the same quality.
Ex: I know someone who is in the garment industry in the quality control area.
When I once questioned them exactly what they do, they explained that when they travel overseas to visit a plant that has been contracted to make a garment, or part of one, its their job to see that they are getting exactly what they are paying for. The factory that turns out blue shirts for a nationwide discount chain, at a retail price of 12 dollars, also manufactures blue shirts for a high end label. The difference is in the level of material, the way its processed, thread count, and alot of things I dont really understand.
Id guess a carbide manufacturer also makes products of different standards directly related to the contractors request and price paid.
 
Seventy years ago, when he started, that might have been true. But with all the stuff coming from Japan, China, India and places we can't pronounce, I also find that highly unlikely.

Actually, Israel produces much of today's carbide. It's used by manufacturers all over the world.
 
Allen,
Your mention of the garment industry reminded me of a part of it that is just the opposite. A company in far west Texas did the designer add-ons for several store and big name labels of clothing. Basically, they received crates of denim lady's shorts as one of the products. They'd add little beaded things or patches or lace or whatever in large batches. Then they'd go to the labeling room where some would get one label, others another. Several different labels would be used for these very same "designer" shorts, then get boxed up and shipped to stores as diverse as Macy's and KMart. :rofl:

They were experienceing inventory shrinkage and we ended up recovering tens of thousands of dollars (retail value,of course) from several different flea market stalls where they were selling brands owned by Dillards, Macy's etc for less than K-Mart prices.
 
I never had any doubt branded clothing or any products arent the same as products branded in other stores.
I dont believe there is any law against one store selling the same exact product with their label on it as opposed to another store.
I believe its the responsibility of the shopper to realize the product they are buying.
But Id find it hard to believe that a Walmart type store would pay for a company that is selling top line garments, since they could get a similar looking 0ne, maybe not the same quality, but similar for 1/4 the price.
I was just saying that that persons job was to assure the top level companies were getting what they were paying for and not a less expensive garment.
 
Allen,
Your mention of the garment industry reminded me of a part of it that is just the opposite. A company in far west Texas did the designer add-ons for several store and big name labels of clothing. Basically, they received crates of denim lady's shorts as one of the products. They'd add little beaded things or patches or lace or whatever in large batches. Then they'd go to the labeling room where some would get one label, others another. Several different labels would be used for these very same "designer" shorts, then get boxed up and shipped to stores as diverse as Macy's and KMart. :rofl:

They were experienceing inventory shrinkage and we ended up recovering tens of thousands of dollars (retail value,of course) from several different flea market stalls where they were selling brands owned by Dillards, Macy's etc for less than K-Mart prices.


youre second part about it in the flea market, thats just theft at the wholesale level. Instead of loading trucks headed for the stores, they were loading their SUVS and selling them to flea market venders.
I also believe its a common practice to order clothes mostly made from over seas, South or Central American companies, where labor is incredibly cheap, then add on some small part and claim assembled in America, or final Manufactured in America. I dont know how they word it, but big electronic firms have been doing that for years.Makes the consumer feel like they are buying American.
 
Top