Photo Gallery Opinion Wanted

Toni Ciuraneta said:

I haven't been able to see it yet as it requires macromedia flash player.

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FWIW I am with Toni. I have an ancient Laptop in the kitchen and I can't see it either. This thing is so old and slow I don't put many ad-ons on it. Probably can see it with my Office computer. But there are lot of old slow computers still being used. I have two in my house, both that basically just surf the web.

Point taken on the Flash requirement and the slow computer thing. I haven't decided yet how important it will be for my site to be compatible with older machines.

Many years ago when the web was starting to pick up momentum, I was at a meeting with our CEO regarding the future of our company website. Our company has always supported a broad range of customer needs and wants, so we were concerned about backwards compatibility with older machines and web browsers, and also concerned about download sizes for customers with slow computers. All of us at the meeting were surprised when the CEO told us (essentially) to not worry about the customers with slower connections or outdated systems. His theory was that people will catch up to current technology sooner or later, and it makes no sense to cripple our website for a rather small minority of potential customers.

Considering the fact that we have since sold millions of dollars worth of products from our website, I think the boss was onto something. I'm guessing the folks with slow connections or older systems probably aren't likely to be potential customers for my work anyway. Plus, I don't really intend for the website to be a primary sales point. It's mostly for people who have seen my work in person, and later decide to buy a piece. Things like woodturnings really need to be held and handled in person before they're purchased, IMHO.

Thanks again, though. The input is very useful.

Vaughn McMillan said:

Considering the fact that we have since sold millions of dollars worth of products from our website, I think the boss was onto something.

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In ~9 years, having high speed internet at home has gone from a luxury to practically a necessity in our house. The lack of high speed would be an issue if we ever looked at a place in the country.

Your boss was bang on.

...art

Well Vaughn... now that I'm at home I've been able to see your pics without any problem, it seems that the PC I have at work is much older than I thought.

So here are my two cents:

While animations on web pages are eyecatching they tend to be tiresome after a while. In this case the first time I saw the tilting effect I thought: Hey that's neat! but after a while I wanted to be able to see the pics without having to nail my mouse on my desk to avoid them moving.

It remembered me the first Superman movie with Christopher Reeve when Lex Luthor and his coleagues are sent to a different dimension.

I would use the tilt effect to (maybe) make a transition from one group of pics to another, no more than that.

While the black background enhances the pics it is to heavy visually and it is taking a lot of screen space that could be used to use bigger pics or more separation between them.

I think that although you do not want it to be your main selling tool, you've got to have a clear image in mind at what are you selling and what idea you're trying to convey to the viewer.

If I want to buy something, I'd like to be able to see it properly specially through the web where the buying decision is taken only based on images. There is no a kind salesperson there to help me.

A written description of the size of the objects, while accurate, makes it difficult to imagine to most people. A scale indicator ( not a measuring tape) next to them will ease that without forcing the viewer to make mental calculations if they are from a country that uses different measuring system.

It doesn't need to be in first picture but it has to be there. If the potential buyer has to imagine that bowl in their dinning room or shelf need to be given a clear idea of the size of the object.

I would ask myself the following questions:
What do I want to sell?
To whom? or in other words Which is the market segment I'm aiming to?
What concept I want to convey behind my products? IE: Quality? Handcrafted, Piece of art? Uniqueness? etc.

Once you know all that you'll be able to pinpoint more clearly how are you going to desing your page.

And I stop pontificating and being pedantic now because I think I got carried away, I apologize.

I hope this helps.

Vaughn,

Very cool. Pay no attention to the old grumpy guys... you're positioning as an artist, so your site *should* be artsy, different, hip. There's a reason music and art sites are the way they are, and this is starting to get you into that category. Last time I checked, Flash penetration was somewhere around 98%, so I don't even bother checking the numbers anymore... and this is life and death to us, as the U homepage is Flash-y...

That said, I think some of the critics are on to something. There's nothing to make it "sticky": one clicks a pic, it gets big, turns over the card, and finds the wood type, then on to the next. That's ok if you're just thinking gallery, but for people to buy, they have to linger a little while. When I buy something on ebay, I've got a whole process worked out. Yes, there's the name, and the pic, but then I go check the seller, check the feedback, make sure they do paypal, there's like a dozen things to do, instead of just clicking and buying. Same with Amazon. That's why their inclusions of reviews was so brilliant. There's precious little good information in those reviews, but it gives you something to read, something to do, while you make up your mind...

Oh, and your CEO was right: your target market will have high speed connections and recent machines. But we, as a group, well, we are absolutely *not* representative of your target market...

Thanks,

Bill

I like it. Some folks might appreciate a note to click on the background to zoom back out.

OK, got up on my Office computer. Interesting but to annoying to look at the pictures. Very Gee Whiz but not practical for sales IMO.

Red Neck visions

vaughn the idea is neat but i too agree that it may not be the ticket as is for sales but your sellin not me.. but i did have one insight that you might be able to get going for you.. when i look at the pieces you have done i like seeing the inside of the wood ,,not sayin this right but i will try to explain. take the one that looks like its guilted mahongny you can almost touch the depth of it but if you could threw your lighting get that reflection that we see whne we pick it up the cadnece or depth that would be something that for me would sell it.. i can look at plain wood all day and not touch it but you show me apiece that has curl or quilt and has the finish like your stuff does and even i will buy it or least want too!!! i hope i got his point out wel enuff to you so i didnt sound like hound dog a bellerin

I like it, the grey a little better. If your looking for a more straight forward gallery, you might take a look here. I'm in the process of setting it up for mine (getting away from asp and going to php)

I'm probably in the grumpy category on many of these things but this is just a bit too edgy for me. I prefer your second option displayed in the other thread as a simpler cleaner effect.

Bill Lantry said:

Vaughn,

...Last time I checked, Flash penetration was somewhere around 98%, so I don't even bother checking the numbers anymore......

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I agree with you on the numbers Bill but there is one serious problem with Flash still. It is much more difficult to build a Google ranking with a Flash dominated site rather than a text dominated site. All the ALT text of the images and the body text of the site is important to building keyword relevance. May be unimportant if Vaughn isn't looking for new eyeballs but needs to be considered.

Ian Barley said:

I agree with you on the numbers Bill but there is one serious problem with Flash still. It is much more difficult to build a Google ranking with a Flash dominated site rather than a text dominated site. All the ALT text of the images and the body text of the site is important to building keyword relevance. May be unimportant if Vaughn isn't looking for new eyeballs but needs to be considered.

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There's a fairly simple solution for all of these concerns-- create a non-Flash option and link it from the main page. Takes care of the motion sickness issue, the Google indexing, the outdated browsers and plug-ins... you get artsy glitz and practicality, both.

The movement of the images creates interest, I agree, but I don't like waiting for all of the images to populate. I kept looking to click on the non-Flash option, but there wasn't one. No fair holding the grumps and luddites hostage, Vaughn! The page is fun to play with, though, and artsy.

The non-Flash option would also help with 508 compliance. Being a public university, we're required to be compliant with ADA so I'm always looking to see how other sites fare. I review the WebTrends reports every month on our users' data to keep our pages viewable in the top 3-4 browsers, since our product (online education) cannot succeed if I thumb my nose at their technical limitations. Too bad, you all get on board or go elsewhere? Ummmm, no... The competition is so fierce, the last thing we want is to send them elsewhere.

Customer needs should always drive your site's design and content-- that is, if you want to sell stuff. This reminds me of the managing partner at the law firm where I worked a few years ago. When we were redesigning the firm's Web site, I approached it from the customer needs point of view, ex., what are people looking for when they come to your site? Millard (let's just call him that for kicks ) insisted that the attorneys bios link be at the top, because that's the first thing he looked at when he visited other firms' sites. Of course the attorneys were what Millard looked at, so he could scope the competition-- but he wasn't buying legal services, which was where the money comes from! The site would have been much better if he thought about his prospective and current clients first and built from there.

The site hasn't changed and the firm's still in business, so... what do I know? Any firm that goes through 10 marketing managers in 10 years can't be wrong.

--MJ

MJ Isles said:

There's a fairly simple solution for all of these concerns-- create a non-Flash option and link it from the main page.

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I agree but that also means creating and maintaining 2 sets of site data. That may be OK if your job description is webmaster but if your job description is "do everything that needs to be done yourself" then duplicating anything is a complete waste.

As has been said, it is about target audience. I guess that designers and artsy types love flash heavy sites. If I click on a link and get a Flash opening page my most likely reaction is to close the page before it has finished loading and go look elsewhere. But then I'm neither a designer or artsy by nature. Flash says to me "This page has been created by a designer either to show off how clever he is or because Flash is the easy way for him to sell site building to somebody that doesn't know what they want from the web". Neither of those are behaviours that I want to encourage so I spend my time and money elsewhere. Flash heavy sites tend to be like those TV commercials which are beautifully lit, superbly acted and wittily scripted but at the end you are left guessing what they were actually selling.

Using a nice bit of photo gallery presnetation in the middle of a site is not the issue for me but when a get a Flash opening screen I usually go elsewhere.

photo gallery opinion

That's incredible! Just when one thinks he has seen it all. I read all of the previous opions before taking a look for myself and now wish I hadn't. Perhaps there is some kind of placebo effect regarding the nausea thing... I hate to admit it because I really did think it was very cool. Not to mention the bowls are amazing. Was wondering if it could be set as an automatic slide show, each piece being enlarged & flipped along the way. Oh and some artsy background tunes could make it a more relaxing enjoyable ride also.

Ian Barley said:

I agree but that also means creating and maintaining 2 sets of site data. That may be OK if your job description is webmaster but if your job description is "do everything that needs to be done yourself" then duplicating anything is a complete waste.

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Not necessarily, esp. if we're talking about a database driven site. One source of data feeds an unlimited number of pages. The time goes into the initial set up, then it runs itself. My job is to keep feeding the dragon (the database), which informs the page content. Whoever came up with that idea should have been awarded a lifetime Nobel prize. Also the person who invented air conditioning. *whew*

Now, if you're talking static pages with no CMS, building and maintaining two sets of pages is a chore all right. I've been the "do everything" person in a busy Marketing department more than once -- including the Web site -- and the last thing I would've needed was yet another set of pages to update.

My Webmaster doesn't update the Web site pages, btw. He's not allowed.

--MJ

MJ Isles said:

.... I've been the "do everything" person in a busy Marketing department....

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But when the definition of "do everything" extends to marketing, copywriting, production, cleaning, janitorial, accounts, legal, purchasing, credit contol and uncle tom cobbly and all, then building the simplest effective site that you can that does the job you want it to do is the primary requirement.

For me that means a set of static html pages that are easily indexed by google and other search engines and can be tuned easily to optimise the results in those search engines. It would be lovely if the people that found me thought that my site looked terrific but if they don't find me it makes no difference how terrific it looks. As somebody who makes a living selling furniture and gets about 80% of his business as a result of a web search, static html and the boring 5 pics per page in a table approach suits me fine.

Don't get me wrong. I love some of the swooshy clever ways of displaying things and letting peopl know stuff but if you want to sell something then people need to find you first.

Hi Vaughn ,
You are on the hunt and will nail down the very right thing for you, I believe that. I enjoyed the presentation of both, mainly due to their uniqueness, liking the less dramatic background of the second. In time I think the novelty of the software might be a bit much.
The photos are wonderful, Great worK
Shaz

Ian Barley said:

But when the definition of "do everything" extends to marketing, copywriting, production, cleaning, janitorial, accounts, legal, purchasing, credit contol and uncle tom cobbly and all.

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Is this your job -- or is this Vaughn's job? Somehow I don't think Vaughn's job involves janitorial and legal and stuff... but I may be wrong.

Ian Barley said:

Don't get me wrong. I love some of the swooshy clever ways of displaying things and letting peopl know stuff but if you want to sell something then people need to find you first.

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Did I say that? What I thought I said was: it's possible to have the best of both worlds, if you want to. And it's possible to get good placement in Google, even with a Flash site, if you want to. We do it all the time at the university, and we don't even utilize paid placement.

If you don't want Flash, don't, but if you do, it's not that big of a deal to accomplish or maintain. It's all about priorities and available resources and stuff.

Or something like that.

What's "uncle tom cobbly"? I love colloquisms!

--MJ

Really cool. I like the lighter background myself

Barry,

I guess I fall into the "Grumpy old farts" category also. I really like the pictures...the quality of lighting, angle, etc. are excellent. All of the movement is interesting, HOWEVER, it detracts from seeing, and feeling the "art."

It is difficult to find a way to get back to seeing all of the selections. Sometimes that part comes right up and sometimes it fights me. My vote is: excellent photos, poor ergonomics. I don't like it in spite of the fact that I do like new things.

Enjoy,

Jim

MJ Isles said:

Is this your job -- or is this Vaughn's job? Somehow I don't think Vaughn's job involves janitorial and legal and stuff... but I may be wrong.

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As far as his woodturning business venture is concerned, this is Vaughn's job description as it is for the vast majority of one man businesses. Unless of course Vaughn has employed a full time marketing team without mentioning it here.

My point is only that decisions taken in how a site is built can have advantages and disadvantages. I know that it is possible to build a good google ranking with a Flash based site. But I also know that it is easier and quicker to achieve using other technologies. And I know that it is possible to maintain both but it does take at least some extra time and for most one man businesses the incremental time required in initial design and ongoing maintenance has to be taken from one of the other items in that all encompassing job description - or from real life.