Aparto II - 2012 Update

We got the vapour barrier down for the living room area, and started the floor joists.



The farthest three joists are nailed down, the close there are just there so I can see my spacing.

The floor joists are all "Hem-Fir" and they are larger than your usual 2x4 which is 3.81mm x 8.89mm, the wood I'm using is 45mm x 90mm so a bit thicker and a bit taller. The max span is abut 90cm or just a tick under 3'. I'll be spacing the joists at 18" (45cm) because of the size of the subfloor plywood. I'll be using the 21mm subfloor plywood (7/8" subfloor plywwood).

I put a piece of thinner plywood, only 19mm (3/4") and it seems very solid to me, so I'm thinking this is OK.

Comments? Am I blowing this one, I'd like to get this right.

Using the laser level is sweet...........

Here you can see the laser just skimming over all three joists, and the bubble level shows the three joist all level to each other, and the level touches all three joists.

Unfortunately, Next week I have a bunch of stuff to do, L shop related almost every morning, so I'll NOT get out to buy my subflooring or finish the floor until at least the week after next, OUCH, a whole week down the tube

This was also the last day that Jake was there to help out, he will leave next Tuesday, but has a bunch of stuff to do before he leaves.

I sure am going to miss the helping hands and the camaraderie.

It was also Jake's birthday today, so I took him to lunch at the Hippy Organic place......


Another great meal!

Cheers!

Stuart Ablett said:

...The floor joists are all "Hem-Fir" and they are larger than your usual 2x4 which is 3.81mm x 8.89mm

...I'll be spacing the joists at 18" (45cm) because of the size of the subfloor plywood. I'll be using the 21mm subfloor plywood (7/8" subfloor plywwood).

I put a piece of thinner plywood, only 19mm (3/4") and it seems very solid to me, so I'm thinking this is OK.

Comments? ...Cheers!

Click to expand...

3.81mm x 8.89mm? Those are some really small joists - I think you meant "cm", not "mm."

As for the subfloor, here in the U.S. ¾" nominal (actually 18mm) ply is the standard for subflooring - usually on 16" centers - so you ought to be okay. I've never seen the 21mm stuff here, and 1"/25mm stuff is pretty much a special order thing - and pricey, too.

Since you mention joist spacing at 45cm, what size are Japanese plywood sheets? I thought they were 120cm X 240cm?

Stuart Ablett said:

I took him to lunch at the Hippy Organic place......

View attachment 33500

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Boy your lunches make my pear + reheated pasta look a bit unappetizing in comparison. But I thought it was a hippy organic vegetarian place, and isn't that meat!?


Floor looks good to me, but I'm no house builder. Didn't you already deal with replacing sub-floor in Aparto I ? Why are you second-guessing your choices on this job?

Don't sweat the delays. The day job comes first for all of us. (well, usually...)

...art

Jim DeLaney said:

3.81mm x 8.89mm? Those are some really small joists - I think you meant "cm", not "mm."

As for the subfloor, here in the U.S. ¾" nominal (actually 18mm) ply is the standard for subflooring - usually on 16" centers - so you ought to be okay. I've never seen the 21mm stuff here, and 1"/25mm stuff is pretty much a special order thing - and pricey, too.

Since you mention joist spacing at 45cm, what size are Japanese plywood sheets? I thought they were 120cm X 240cm?

Click to expand...

Jim, nice catch, yeah, 3.81cm x 8.89

The plywood here is 91 cm x 182 cm or about 3' x 6'

Cheers!

Art Mulder said:

Boy your lunches make my pear + reheated pasta look a bit unappetizing in comparison. But I thought it was a hippy organic vegetarian place, and isn't that meat!?

Click to expand...

Nope, no meat, tofu

Art Mulder said:

Floor looks good to me, but I'm no house builder. Didn't you already deal with replacing sub-floor in Aparto I ? Why are you second-guessing your choices on this job?

Don't sweat the delays. The day job comes first for all of us. (well, usually...)

...art

Click to expand...

The Aparto 1, I had height problems, so I went with much smaller joists, much closer together. This time I'm replacing it all, so I am starting from just about scratch, so the 2x4 joists on top of the beam structure is what I'm using. Due to the size of the plywood, 91cm x 182 cm, I am really limited to two spacings, either the wider 45 centers, or the much narrower 30cm. I mocked up the 30cm and it just simply looked like HUGE over kill.

Cheers!

Art Mulder said:

...For those who wonder... Hwy 401 is the main highway in Southern Ontario extending from Detroit through London, to Hamilton and Toronto and on to Kingston and towards Montreal. In Toronto there are 3-4 lanes of express each way, along with 3 lanes each way of collectors. And if you go 110km/h (ie 70mph) you are likely being passed all the time... It is a big and busy highway...

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What impressed me about the parts of Hwy 401 that I've driven (between Toronto and Mississauga) was the combination of speed and traffic density. Living in LA, I'm used to tightly-packed lanes, but not when they're moving at 80+ mph. Definitely heads-up driving conditions.

Stuart Ablett said:

Nope, no meat, tofu

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My condolences.

The rebuild is looking good, Stu.

Stu that was one heck of nice parting gift to Jake. I'm sure he will put those to good use for a lifetime. Give him my regards if it is not too late.

Alex Reid said:

Stu that was one heck of nice parting gift to Jake. I'm sure he will put those to good use for a lifetime. Give him my regards if it is not too late.

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Alex, he earned it

I'm going to practice Aikido with him at 7AM tomorrow, my regular weekly class, and then put him on the train at Shinjuku for Narita after that. I'll make sure I pass along your regards.

He'll be doing the Fine Woodworking course at Selkirk Collage in Nelson, so I know he will put them to good use!

So did the Aikido do you in? Or just taking a break?

I have to tell you that I'm so fascinated by this that I went back and read all 58 pages of your last aparto thread.

Justin, the Aikido certainly tires me out, but it has not done me in......... yet!

I had a great practice with Jake, then I went home and had a shower, picked him at at about 9AM at the aparto, and took him down to the train station, he got on the Narita express, a straight shot out to the airport. He mailed me from Seoul, he is doing a bit of a milk run to get a cheaper ticket, and all is well. Sure am going to miss his help, the hippy organic place just won't be the same at lunch without him

I won't get much of anything done this week, I have stuff going on all week that is Liquor shop work related in the mornings

Oh well.

Cheers!

Stu, had a look at the Selkirk link, the link on that page to students work is one really worth looking at . Wow some real lovely work shown there. Thanks for the link. By the way that was a great meaningful gift. Love it.

I was able to get back at it today for a few hours, was rather quiet with only me there

I did hear from Jake, he got home to Canada safe and sound ;D

I got more of the floor joists in, the time consuming corner stuff, in what will become the closet, I'm still loving that laser level 55



Not nearly as much work as I would have liked to have done, but my time was limited.

I should get back at it tomorrow, and hopefully, I'll be off to Super Viva Home to get the subfloor plywood on Monday!

Cheers!

After a busy but fun weekend, I got back at it Monday morning.

My plan was to head out to Super Viva Home to get the subfloor plywood, I got out there and all they had was the 15mm or 28mm The others were sold out. The sub flooring comes in 15mm, 21mm, 24mm, and 28mm, Inch sizes would be :

15mm 19/32" (between 9/16" and 5/8")
21mm 53/64" (between 3/4" and 7/8")
24mm 31/32" (a tick under a full inch)
28mm 1 7/64" (a tick under an 1 1\8")

I wanted the 21mm stuff, the 15mm plywood is designed to go on the 12" centers, the 21mm is for the 18" centers I'm using.

The guy told me they had ordered it, but it had not come yet.

I got back on the highway and drove out to Joyful Honda, they had the 15mm, 24mm, and 28mm, but no 21mm

The 24mm stuff was 1880 yen a sheet ($19) but remember that is a 3' x 6' sheet. the 21mm stuff is usually 1550 a sheet ($15.80) but they did not have it. They did have a sale on for the 24 mm stuff, if you bought a pallet of 50 sheets , that price was $1650 a sheet ($16.80). I got talking to one of the guys I've dealt with out there a lot and asked what was the deal with the 21mm stuff not being in stock, he said that they had ordered it, but it had not come in yet

I know he knew that I came all the way from Tokyo, so I asked him nicely to give me the 50 sheet deal on just 8 sheets (I need 12 sheets, but 12 sheets I think would have killed my poor old little truck), I figured why not just ask, he agreed

That is going to be one VERY solid floor .

While I was out there wandering around I found a neat addition to my laser level......



........ this is similar to a camera mount, the laser level has a threaded hole on the bottom this bracket screws into, then you clamp it to what is handy. The bottom knob gives you a 40mm (1 9/16") adjustment up and down.. I know this is going to come in real handy when I hang the ceiling.

Cost about $50, worth it to me!

Cheers!

You're right - that floor is gonna be really solid!

The laser level mount looks interesting, too. I've not seen one like it before. Oughtta be quite handy.

Back at it today.......... S-L-O-W-L-Y.............. as summer has finally come

I cranked the AC, and sweated a lot.

Got more done than the pics show, but here are the pics......


I got the moisture absorbing rock down.......


Then the insulation.......


........and..... the first sheet of the 24mm (31/32") thick subfloor plywood down!

More tomorrow!

Stuart Ablett said:

.... the first sheet of the 24mm (31/32") thick subfloor plywood down!...

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That looks really substantial in the pic. That's gonna be one SOLID floor!

Looking real good Stu. Keep up the good work and well done on the plywood deal. What the heck if you dont ask you never know Eh!

Thanks fellas, you could surely park a truck, and not a micro van, but a TRUCK on this floor........... if you could get it in the door

Interesting floor process Stu. It gives me some ideas, so, a couple of questions:
1) Is the "moisture absorber" a clay product (ie. kitty litter, or oilsorb) ?
2) Did you space the joists to fit the insulation and does it just friction-fit in place?

Looks great. It would be fun to steal some of your Tokyo methods and apply them to an old NS farmhouse!

Best regards
Peter

Hey Peter,　nice to hear from you!

The insulation is cut from larger sheets, and then there are these little steel hanger things that hold it up.

The moisture absorbing rock is a natural rock product.

Cheers!