Off to a bad start with the jointer!

OK, I finally had a chance to try out my new Ridgid jointer. I wanted to make a crosscut sled for my table & I had a 1 1/4" thick x 9 1/4" wide board that would end up being the push board & it had already been finished on all 4 sides. I didn't need the full width so I decided to play with the jointer.1. Please keep in mind that I've never used a jointer before.2. Set the depth of cut to 1/32": dialed it below & then brought it up to 1/32" DOC.3. Didn't use any push device as board was well above top of fence.4. Placed the board on edge on the in-feed table & against the fence.5. Cranked her up & fed the board through the cutter with downward pressure against the table & also against the fence.6. When the board passed the cutter I emphasized pushing down on the out-feed table while still pushing down on the in- feed table.7. It started cutting right away but soon after (~ 6") it let up & didn't cut any more until the tag end reached the cutter.8. Dialed in another 1/32" & basically got the same results using the same method. Repeated again trying to figure out what was going on.9. Again same results, now cutting to about midpoint of the 44" long board.10. Swapped ends & repeated same steps above.11. Ended up with each end shaved, but widening towards the center: board wider at center than at either end.12. Went back to the table saw to straighten out the edge.Embarrassing, and I know that repeating the same method & expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, but where am I going wrong?

from the sounds your board edge was bowed al,, sometimes your cuts off a table wont be straight if you look at your board on the jointer table you can either feel the rock or see the light under the middle, once you get a uniform cut full length then the board edge should be straight.

Thanks Larry, but I eye-balled the board first & it was pretty straight, it might have been out just a touch at most. I made it much worse. It has to be something I'm doing??? I didn't expect the result. I re-cut the board on my TS & I know it's straight now. I'll try again tomorrow. Just trying to get some experience started.

Al, I have an old, 1955, Shopmaster 6" jointer that was given to me. I've never used one before either. Like you, I had a board to play with last weekend and thought I would. Same results you are getting. Is it contagious??? So Mack, you say to keep pressure on the infeed side. That is contrary to what I've always read. But trying to keep pressure on the outfeed table once the wood got far enough onto it that I could certainly didn't work. Now to be honest. I don't know if the beds are parallel to each other or not. Don't have an owner's manual to even attempt to make any adjustments plus the earlier statement about never using one before. Even if this jointer would never work right, I'd keep it because it's old arn, and it was a gift from a friend. But I might try keeping pressure on the infeed side to see what happens next time I feel like dragging it out. Jim.

did you apply pressure evenly on the outfeed side, holding the board down tight to the fence and bed 6 or so inches from the blade, moving your hands to keep pressure even?

al and jim here is a link to some you tube flicks that should help you out link

Mack Cameron said:

Hi Al; There is no need to put pressure on the outfeed table. Once the board has passed over the cutters there is nothing more for you to do than keeping the piece of wood up against the fence, and down on the infeed table.

Have at me those that disagree!

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My thoughts exactly Mack.

Im trying to think how you hold the boards on the outfeed table without applying enough pressure to keep the board even

Mack Cameron said:

Hi Al; There is no need to put pressure on the outfeed table. Once the board has passed over the cutters there is nothing more for you to do than keeping the piece of wood up against the fence, and down on the infeed table.

Have at me those that disagree!

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I totally respect Mack but, do disagree . The infeed is for supporting your stock up to the cutterhead. The machined surface past the head is now your reference surface; the one that has been jointed. Now, having made that sweeping statement, allow me to blather a bit.

From your description it sounds like you are edge jointing a board that has not had the face jointed flat first. This means you have no known reference surface. My procedure is joint a face flat, place that now flat face against the fence and joint an edge, place that flat face down on your planer and plane to thickness, place the flat edge against the fence on your tablesaw and rip to width.

Your description of the problem could be a support issue and not especially aggravated by not jointing the face (if that is true) especially since repeated passes cause the problem to increase. If the board is not fully supported on the infeed side, any unsupported portion has no reference plane to follow and will foul your pass. If there is a slight box in the board and the end hanging off the infeed is 1/16" low as the cutterhead begins its work, the material will rise as that drooping 1/16" climbs up onto the infeed. Do anther pass and the problem exacerbates.

A support surface that is on plane with the infeed will cure this particular jointer feed problem but, not all of them ;-) Let me see if I can diagram this quickly . . .



This does not address the philosophical question of whether your infeed or your outfeed should be your reference surface but, it may apply to your current problem . There's more than one way to skin the cat. Mack's and mine just happen to differ. A video that leans more my direction (at about 5 minutes in) is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-ZZ0dhbJYY

P.s. I tried attaching this pic a couple different ways in the hope that one will be easy to read.

My two cents is probably worth half that much, but it sounds to me like the tables are not in the same plane - specifically, the outfeed table seems to be going up hill from the cutter. This would account for the first 6 inches being cut, then as the front of the stock rides up the hill, the middle of the stock lifts and clears the cutter head. The back end is now supported on the infeed table by only the tip of the board. As that tip gets to the cutter it drops down when leaving the support of the infeed table and is trimmed.

If you place the edge of the jointed board on a flat surface like your table saw and you see daylight under the first 6 inches of the leading edge, and about 2 inches of daylight at the other end, then this might be your problem.

Check with a long straight edge laid from end to end on the two tables and see if there is a gap in the center. You can also use a digital guage, like a wixey, to see if they are coplanar. Zero out on the infeed and see if you get zeros on the outfeed.

Again, I could be way off.

I suggest you read this blog by Tom Hintz on how to use a jointer. It very nicely details out the method I use. It even gives you the tip of swapping ends that I use to even out some wood defects. For those of you who want to know with out going to the link, it uses the method that Glenn suggests.

Put a (known) straightedge along the outfeed table, and then bring the infeed table up til it touches the straightedge. There should be no gaps showing - the tables should be exactly parallel. If they're not, you can adjust - or shim - the tables until they are parallel - both lengthwise, and side-to-side. That should cure your problem.

Also, contrary to Mack's opinion, when pushing a board thru the jointer, begin with both your hands (or push-pads) holding down the infeed side of the board, then when about a foot of wood has passed over the cutters, transfer your left hand (pad) to the outfeed, lighten up the pressure on the infeed side, and continue pushing it thru. When about two-thirds of the board has passed the cutters, transfer both hands (pads) to the outfeed side and finish the cut. This ensures an even cut throughout.

The outfeed table dhould be dead-even with the knives, btw.

Also, for safety's sake, never joint a liece that's less than about a foot long.

Hope this helps!

Rennie and Jim are both thinking along the same lines as me. It sounds suspiciously like the two tables aren't co-planar. Like Jim, I'd bring the infeed up to match the outfeed, then use a good straightedge to verify the whole thing is flat. Once you know the tool's set up correctly, then you'll know if your technique is the cause and address it (if necessary).

Vaughn McMillan said:

Rennie and Jim are both thinking along the same lines as me. It sounds suspiciously like the two tables aren't co-planar. Like Jim, I'd bring the infeed up to match the outfeed, then use a good straightedge to verify the whole thing is flat. Once you know the tool's set up correctly, then you'll know if your technique is the cause and address it (if necessary).

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You can also use two framing squares to check if your jointer tables are co-planer. The link I reference explains how.

Bill Satko said:

You can also use two framing squares to check if your jointer tables are co-planer. The link I reference explains how.

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That's a good way of doing it, although it's only as accurate as the two squares are.

al, I dont mean any disrespect, but I think its best if you get someone with a bit more experience with jointers to help you make sure you are set right and see what their take is on the machine. There is always a slight possibility something is defective. They are machines with little forgiveness.
I know when I first got my jointer, I had the tool repairman show me how to adjust, and how to run a board through when he delivered it.(they assembled it for me and delivered it, so I had him give me hints and pointers, hey, thats a good pun, some pointers on the jointers.)

Allen, no disrespect taken.

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions & links. Amazing, helpful forum!!!

When I setup/tuned the jointer I had the following results:

1. Out-feed table was leveled dead nuts. Took a while- longer than I thought it would. Done
2. Rotated the cutter to be sure the gap between blades was oriented up so nothing protruded above either table.
3. Lowered the in-feed table & used a 48" Starrett precision scale as a straight edge to check the out-feed table.
4. Checked for flatness: lengthwise front, center, rear & diagonal both ways. Could only insert a 0.0015" feeler gage under the straight edge. Done
5. Raised the in-feed table to just contact the straight edge. Held the straight edge on the out-feed table & checked for gaps between the in-feed table & the straight edge. Leading & trailing edges of in-feed table were tight to straight edge. Center of in-feed table had 0.0015"-0.002" gap about a foot from the cutter. Done
6. Top of the cutter blades were very close to begin with, actually as close as I thought I could adjust them. When placing a straight edge of board over the cutter while rotating the pulley belt, the board had just the slightest tendency to crawl forward. Didn't adjust the blades - as good as I could do. Done
7. Secured the fence at 90°. Checked with machinist square. Dead on. Done

I was impressed with how well the jointer was setup at the factory. Really had nothing to do except assemble & level; at least until I find out differently???

All that being said, I ripped the board on the table saw (~1952 Sears "Roebuck" Craftsman model) again, just shaving it, then cut the board to lengths (28" & 14") for the crosscut sled. Just checked it for flatness; not as flat as expected - gaps at one end. When sawing I leave the out-feed end of the fence ~1/32" further away (one end of table vs. the other) from the blade so there is no tail cutting from the saw blade. I'm going to use the jointer again to get one side straight on each board. Fortunately there is a bit more width to spare!

I'll try both methods again to test the primary tables for control, out-feed vs. in-feed. So far the videos I've watched on & off over the past week have emphasized the out-feed table as primary???

Glenn, your comments "align" with what I was considering as the problem in terms of support, i.e. the tail end climbing as it approached the end of the in-feed table. That would reduce the depth of cut around the center of the board. However, the board was pretty straight to begin with. Perhaps it doesn't take much too affect the results.

Rennie, interesting insight, but wouldn't pressure against the out-feed table tend to control what's happening behind it with the gapped end riding in air rather than bearing against the in-feed table??? With the boards recently re-ripped, each with a slight gap on one end, I'll try running the boards through with the gap trailing to see what happens.

Just a thought but it would seem to me that the term "co-planer" would apply only when the in-feed table is raised to be on the same plane as the out-feed table, otherwise they would be parallel planes.

Also, it seems there are different methods employed. Could this be due to the personal physical effort applied by individuals?

The tip of the knives should be exactly the height of the out feed table. the depth of cut is determined by raising or lowering the infeed table. i'm sure you already know this from your manual.

my method of using the jointer to edge a board is to put hardly any pressure on the out feed end of the board. most of the pressure is keeping the board tight to the fence with my left hand and pushing it down and forward with my right hand. i've never ever had a problem keeping a board straight using this method. as I feed the board through I can see that the board remains flush with the outfeed table. the last foot or so I put pressure with my left hand on the outfeed table keeping the board tight against the fence and follow through the cut with my right hand on top of the board keeping light downward pressure and follow through until the board is past the cutterhead.

maybe we can get together sometime this weekend and come up with a solution to the problem. not really sure what my work schedule is.