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cant build a box for profit

Jeff Bower said:
But not at your son's specs!! :D You're right though, not many would pay that for something like this. Maybe you should lower your hourly wage....:rofl:
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I disagree, not many of us would that for something like this, I'm going to continue to claim the woodworkers are more frugal than the average woodchuck. I still think y'all are short changing yourselves :D My knee jerk was price should be around $300-350 when I saw the specs before reading the math, that was assuming a quick not-so-special finish on it. Obviously depends on location/clientele but again if you're shooting for the bottom of the pricing barrel all you aren't going to skim the cream off of the top (they're metaphores I mixed them, now I have butter).

The "comparable" units at the homestore aren't directly comparable:
  • MDF + veneer (probably plastic) vs oak ply. Even if they are ply you can bet that its not the same quality
  • Construction quality.. yeah.. I'm going to claim you have them beat.
  • Customization - this is worth a lot to folks in the right market

BTW: Johnathan has a fantastic point, I'd hate to ruin my hobby!
 
allen levine said:
youre shopping at the wrong places. Ive seen units for less than 100 that were adequate and nice enough looking to do the job.
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That's not the point. You asked would a person pay that.

What I posted is a very average price for putting together a custom component set of shelves.

Many audiophiles use exactly those components for their systems.

If your son had wanted something made out of particle board that would not fit his specifications, then I'm sure a 100$ mass produced furniture like object would suffice.
 
Maybe that is why we see "made In China" at so many craft shows and in Wallyworld. Gave up on craft shows as you mentioned people will say I can build that cheaper.

Anyway good looking boxes.
 
allen levine said:
if thats a fair price, maybe Im onto something.
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Speaking for myself and probably many others here, making a simple custom cabinet like that in 3 hours and 20 minutes isn't as easy as you make it sound. That right there gives you an edge over a lot of hobbyist woodworkers. ;)


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Heck, I spent 4 hours today just making a simple plywood box lined with styrofoam insulation.

If Allen can't make a profit at these things, what chance do us mere mortals have?:D
 
Its a simple process.
Take a sheet, cut it at 45.5 inches, the height of the walls.(festool track saw)
Then rip one piece off at 31 inches.
Now I can use the festool track to cut dados or the TS, I choose the TS.
Set up the dados, take that31 inch wide piece, run the dados, slowly and carefully.
Then take out the dado set, rip that 31 inch piece with dados into two 15.5 inch width, using best side against fence. I always leave a bit extra if I have it.
Then take the rest of the sheet, rip each piece the same 15.5 inch width.
Since my original cut was 45.5 inches, I have 50 inches inches left on each ripped piece.
Cross cut each of those pieces to 20 and 3/4, leaving inside measurements of 20 inches, allowing 3/8ths on each side for dado.
Clamp and glue up cabinet, check for squareness, throw some pins into it, let set for at least an hour.(while its sitting, I took some strips,scraps of white oak, planed them down to 1/2 inch, then ripped them a bit wider than 3/4 inch, cut them fit to size, pinned and glued them on as face frame, this was the longest process.)
flip it on its side, attach castors.
This is not a time consuming build. Its one cut with the festool track saw, 6 cuts with the dado blade, and another 12 cuts on the TS.
The remaining pieces of the sheet, is enough for me to make another vampire kit box, I wont be making a dovetailed box, and this time I will use glass instead of plexi.

IM going out shortly to sand down the unit, hit it with 4 or 5 coats of em6000 gloss lacquer, clean up and vacuum out the shop, and then Im closing the shop for month, the time has come for me to start moving my bedroom downstairs, and working on the attic bedroom. (new walls, rip up floor, new wood or laminate floor, paint, built in knee wall drawers, and then built in dresser and cabinets, which Ill be back in the shop for I figure in a couple of months time.)
 
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Al, I know I'm jumping in here late. I think the gist of what you are saying is that generally most people are unwilling to pay us lowly craftsmen (general term here not to exclude craftswomen) for the value of our experience and quality of our work and product. I think this is due to several conditions one of which is the current tough economic times. Another could very well be the flood of cheap goods flooding our market that drives the idea that things can be had for a few bucks and where quality does not enjoy a pride of place in peoples minds. I see this as a sort of dumbing down of our buying habits.

So what do you do?. I have a friend that is very good at manufacturing/craftsmanship of flooring from reclaim lumber. He has found a niche market for his goods. He decided one day to make a reclaim lumber table. Simple 8/4glue-up slab top with welded/powder coated tube steel legs. He sold several for $800-$1200.(craigs list/ e-bay) Then a furniture gallery guy approached him to make them for his store and told him that he was selling the same tables for "over $3000"

I have only done one crafts show so I really don't have experience with that venue. I am sure I would enjoy talking with people and if the weather was nice I could even enjoy sitting around for a day or two. I wonder if I could make that much selling crafts that way. Maybe, maybe not. I think 2 things are most important. Having a product that is unique enough so you are not competing with everyone else in the herd, or really thinking about how to market your goods.

From the limited experience selling my pens I have learned a few things. I always am trying to improve quality and from the marketing aspect, talking and presenting my pens in an atmosphere of quality. I want to produce heirloom quality writing instruments so this is the way I talk to potential customers. Most of them come with a limited lifetime warranty. I try to make them from unusual woods and other materials. Funny thing is, This attitude has gained several bulk wholesale orders. Sure those pens were of lesser quality, but I productionized the manufacturing process and cranked out 100 pens in about 40 hours. Net profit was about $1500 Not bad for an average weeks work. (these bulk orders were for promotion of other businesses)

The marketing of what you want to sell is huge. It is a good topic to sit around with a few woodworking friends, a few beers, and flap the gums over. I really haven't begun to tap into the many marketing venues I've thought of. I even put a few feelers out and got good responses back from potential sale points. I am a little afraid of the potential volume of work that might cause. :D

One possible venue you might explore is a jewelry store. I asked around at a couple and they were interested in selling my pens. I also noticed that they didn't have much in the way of jewelry boxes. Definitely didn't have really nice, well appointed boxes. So that idea is rattling around in my head. I might wait until I get a CNC router so I can make some custom inletted drawers and designs in the box tops. This machine will allow me to do custom looking work fairly efficiently and save time. The trick is to make something that exudes quality and uniqueness. In my opinion there is no substitute for using rare or highly figured woods. I do have an advantage in that I do harvest trees myself and have the ability to get the wood sawn and dried. Spalted woods are pretty popular. I also buy exotics over the internet and have found it effective to sometimes buy bigger boards and re-saw then into smaller sizes.

Your boxes are very nice looking. I would suggest that you might think about how to make them a little more unique. I have been thinking about how to leave the rectangle behind. It does add complexity to the design and manufacture but it might get a longer look from customers. Now if we had been onto this topic last Summer when you visited the ambassador we might have come up with some beer fueled eureka moments. I did enjoy meeting you.:wave:
 
thought Id show a finished picture of the two boxes.(started with enough pieces to build 4 or 5 boxes, 2 I had to toss, the oak one I made the dovetails too tight and when I tried to force them together, the board split, so that one is for me and my pen supplies now)

I dont remember, 2 or 3 coats of rubbed on formsby high gloss tung formula, then 5 coats of rub on high gloss poly, lightly sanded in between coats with 220 grit.

Although rubbing on coats of oil or poly isnt that time consuming, its still needs a certain amount of time every to get the coats on.

On to my next projects, enough messing around and banging my head against the wall.

I intended to spray the boxes after they cured from the oil for a week, with em6000 gloss laquer,but wasnt thrilled with the results I got with the rolling cabinet.
My fault, I should have hit it with some kind of sealer first. And Im still waiting on my buddy to give me a lesson on spray gun use.
 

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