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Tool Pride

What an interesting question!!

I guess what we have to keep in mind is that just about everybody is different here: Tod needs top quality equipment to keep production running smoothly, Stu needs something small enough to fit in the dungeon, others really enjoy the "deal" almost as much as the tool itself.

Personally, I'm an aging woodworker with fading eyesight and declining muscle power. My most precious thing is the time I have left to learn woodworking. When I get a tool that needs lots of tuning before it will work decently or always needs recalibrating or other maintenance - that's a really bad investment for me. When I think back on all the time I've wasted on cheap tools I get a little angry at myself. If I were younger and had more time to fool with them, the equation would be totally different.

When we talk about our tool preferences, lets keep in mind that what works for the goose may not work for the gander!
 
Jesse Cloud said:
I guess what we have to keep in mind is that just about everybody is different here:
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And in addition to that is that the pros and the skilled here are very good at putting up with those of us that are not quite in that category.

I think that the other thing is that the great majority here would admit to a quality change in any brand of tool if it was called for regardless of their brand preference.

A lot of us here, maybe all, have been members of other forums for a good time now and know what can happen when feelings get tied to brand loyality and it becomes a total waste of time other than for it's entertainment value.

I was guilty recently of recommending a tool based on brand reputation that I do not have, and duly noted, but at least I was willing to put my money where my mouth was. That might have been out of line but I felt strongly about it.
 
Jesse Cloud said:
When we talk about our tool preferences, lets keep in mind that what works for the goose may not work for the gander!
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absolutely jesse! i feel pretty confident saying that most if not all the folks here would make an honest assessment of a persons needs vs their ability vs their pocketbook vs their space limitations if questions regarding tools where phrased so as to permit a knowledgable response.
 
Well I assume it is human nature, ask a mule person about horses or a horse person about mules. Go into a small town cafe and ask which is best, green (John Deere) or red (Case IH). The list can go on and on. We want what is best, try hard to convince all others that what we own is best and defend it to the nth degree.
 
Another factor that ramps up the emotion is the stress caused when you don't know much about tools. Early on when I was assembling the equipment, I was flabbergasted by the variety of Stanley Planes. And that was only the starting point.

So my questions posed on various forums were charged up. Being in that mode sensitizes you to comments from others that might only be a 'slight preference', but are wounding. Why did Stanley make so many different kinds of planes, anyway? And did they matter? Were North American homes and furniture so much better off because the Model 45 had the versatility of umpteen different cutters.

The divergence of hobbyist and professional brings up another factor. People working for a living are in a hurry. They need equipment which does not intrude on their time. That's a big difference from my requirements. I know a shop that sold an Altendorf Sliding Saw because the workers complained of the setup time. Hey, I'll take it!

Gary Curtis
 
As a Newbie here . . .

I have'nt seen it yet. At least to the degree it is on other sites. Just the mention that you bought a Craftsman ( Crapsman ) product will label you AMATURE and probably not taken seriously. Around here it seems the focus is primarily on " The Work " and not what you're useing. It feels like I can chime in here even though I'm a recent arival. This is not to say I don't share your enthusiasm for that NEW LN SHOULDER PLANE I can't afford ! Yet !
 
Ok, I havent had a chance to read all the responses yet, but one response in particular bothered me so I wanted to respond to clear some things up before I go on.

To Mr Stu Ablett. I didn't say SOME Festool and Mini Max owners, but that is certainly what I meant. And I also didn't mean to make it out to seem as if they were the only culprits. Just that it seems that more often than with any other brand, the fights that go on in the WW forums are Festool related.

That said, I do plan on owning some Festool equipment VERY soon and I wouldn't be surprised if I owned some MM equipment in the future. So don't think I am knocking everybody that owns these brands of tools. Just you:p
 
Frank Fusco said:
...FW is top heavy with pros and masters and comments, as I said, are from that perspective. The hobbyist represents a tiny minority here.
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I don't think the hobbyists are a minority. We have some talented hobbyists, and some of them do own pro-level tools, but I think the weekend warriors and retirees outnumber the professional board-slingers. I agree with you about the need to determine what's best for ourselves, and not just copy what the pros do. (But I've not felt a lot of anti-Griz sentiment here...a bit of joking and poking, but I haven't been told by anyone that I should not have bought the Griz/Shop Fox tools I own.)

tod evans said:
or suggesting that a pen turner buy a robust lathe....kinda ludicrous.
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Yeah, the Robust is much better suited for bottle stoppers. :rofl:

To address Allen's original question, I think it's just part of human nature to want to be proud of our decisions and to justify them to others. Like him, I don't understand the passion that often goes along with this type of discussion. But the again, I don't understand people who are zealots for any cause. Zealotry is another name for close-mindedness and potential ignorance, IMO. Advocacy seems a better mindset. Advocates can usually see other sides of the equation.
 
Jonathan Shively said:
Go into a small town cafe and ask which is best, green or red .
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That's easy....I like both colors....Tractors are Green and Muscle Cars are Red.:D

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Ok I just finished reading them all.

A lot of people are saying that it is human nature, but I guess I could argue, that if it is human nature, then EVERYBODY would be like that and that is certainly not the case. Though I can agree that it is natural for a person to get fanatical about something. We see it everyday from religion to sports. So I guess this is nothing new.

I think that I am lucky to not have had a certain brand of tools to live by. Growing up I thought Black & Decker was the best until I started getting into woodworking, then I learned pretty quickly that there was no best brand and that almost all of the popular brands have a tool that could be considered "the best" in its category.

Right now, my shop is like a rainbow, I don't have more than 2 tools from one brand, though that may have changed if some of the new tools were out when I bought some of my tools.

Still I can see that while Festool, Milwaukee and Bosch are great brands, my loyalty stops when their tools stop being the most useful to me. I guess you could call me a fair weather tool fan.

Just the mention that you bought a Craftsman ( Crapsman )
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A WNetter huh?:rofl:
 
Not those tools in particular but, that behavior, is one of the reasons I'm on THIS forum as opposed to others. I see no problem with saying the DW735 is the way to go for a lunch box planer if someone is asking what they should get. That is some of our best value here; what I did, what I think about it and why I'd do the same/different next time. I find that personal experience extremely helpful. When zealots post graphic videos of how your head will explode if you don't use their preferred "XYZ" brand soup strainer; I get bored real quick.
 
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Allen....I hope the joy that I've been showing about outfitting my new shop with tools wasn't the cause of this thread. I started my shop 3 years ago, paying cash as I went along. I've built some furniture and love working with wood....flatwork. Then 2 years ago in November I made the mistake of trading barbs with the turners at SMC. They got their revenge! They gifted me with a Jet VS Mini, tools, videos etc. I was one week from having my shop completed. Until the last week I was 6 days and 7 hours and 30 minutes from having my shop finished. Now some of the founding members here got involved in getting their revenge. I've done literaly nothing but turn for 18 months. I'm approaching retirement and want my shop finished and outfitted with tools before then.

As a young teen I was into music in a big way. I had a "cheap" bass guitar. Following HS I moved near Chicago where I played until I got drafted in 1968. After hearing all the good rock bands in the Chicago area I sold my equipment as I knew I'd never be as good as the musicians whom I was enjoying in the area. 26 years later the LOML bought me a "GOOD" bass. I play much better now, than I did as a teen. I decided when I outfitted my shop to get the best quality equipment I could afford. Of course, I lose all my excuses if my projects don't turn out as well as they should!:rolleyes:

For my lathe I chose a PM3520B....I would love to have a Robust or a Oneway but frankly...couldn't justify 2 to 3 times the expense. Recently I turned on a Robust American Beauty.....$10,000......Nice?....Yeah....but I just couldn't justify it....The PM3520B that just delivered a few minutes ago to my shop will do me well at 28% of the cost of that Robust.....It'll turn everything I'll ever need and it's capabilities will probably always exceed mine!

For doing resawing for furniture and rounding out bowl blanks I wanted a bandsaw with a minimum of 16" of cutting height and at least 2.5 HP. 20" would be better so you can run the bigger 1" carbide blades without shortening their lives. So it came down to Laguna, MiniMax and Agazzani......I could have bought bigger and more expensive but couldn't justify it! When I talked with the sales persons at each of those 3 companies, they all said the same thing when I mentioned what saws I was looking at " You can't go wrong with any of those 3"....So considering what Mini-Max did for Steve Clardy.....I went with Mini-Max.

I truly hope my "gloats" weren't what caused this thread or bothered anyone. I was just happy to be able to outfit my shop for my future retirement with what I consider "good" equipment.....Maybe not the best but "good".....

Sincerely,

Ken
 
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:rofl: No Ken, you werent the cause of this thread, though some of the Mini Max bashing and defending on the other forum was partially what inspired
this thread.

But it was just as much if not more based on quite a few other threads I've read in the past few days where a topic wouldn't even be about anything to do with Festool at all yet somebody would slip in an anti Festool comment that would be almost immediately followed by the Festool defense force and the argument would ensue in a topic that was completely unrelated.

I'm not being specific because I don't want to call anybody out, this thread was inspired by recent events, but it is something that has been going on for a long time. Its not meant to be an attack, but instead a "lets get passed the nonsense and try to be more efficient in helping each other out" type deal.

For the record Ken, I've always liked you as a poster even on the other forum, and I have never had anything personal against you or anything to complain about.
 
This thread appears to be digressing in to a love fest that should be taken up in the off topic area. To be woodworker is to have some "thick"skin so as not to get easily cut. Your choice of machinery/hand tools/wood are yours to make. If you require assistance, ask and ye shall recieve......in abundance in some cases. This forum was set you to be a "positive" place for all of us to exchange ideas, tricks and have a good time. Lets not take anything to personal as the Internet is impersonal and therefore just a medium. The founders came here to enjoy the friendships and we will do that without the pains endured on other forums. Sorry if this seems inflammatory, it was purely meant as a suitable end to thread gone off course.
 
I just heard something about forums/message boards in general on the radio. Bob Costas stated on his HBO show that sports message boards aren't like they were once. In the past, you could make a statement about a team/coach/player etc. and get some constructive feedback, but now any negative or positive message creates all kinds of attacks and arguments. Thus making them useless to a real "fan"

I'm glad that FWW has not gone the way of most fourms/message boards that are out there. I am a big "fan" of this forum over all the others I watch/belong to because of this. The name itself says it all "family" :thumb:
 
Them sounds like fightin words Joe. Want to back that talk up?:dunno:

Ok heres the thing, I prefer this forum over all the rest, like I'm sure most of the regulars do. The reason I started posting here was because most of the people I like from the other forum are the ones who started this one.

That said, even I know that FWW is not the definitive place to get all my woodworking information, and sometimes I do have to cross over into the other forums to get specific information that just isn't available here.

It just bothers me that I have to ask my questions like as if I was asking them to a bunch of little kids, being careful not to say anything that might get everybody riled up, because even though WWing forums are made up of mostly adults, the attitudes of the grand majority of posters are juvenile at best.

EDIT: Joe that was a joke playing off your "lovefest" comment. If the mods think that this thread deserves to be moved into the off topic forum, I'd have no problem with it.
 
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Consider this: The history books are still waiting for the official date that the Civil War will end for good. :huh:

We humans are a curious lot. ;)

DT
 
Jonathan Shively said:
Well I assume it is human nature, ask a mule person about horses or a horse person about mules. Go into a small town cafe and ask which is best, green (John Deere) or red (Case IH). The list can go on and on. We want what is best, try hard to convince all others that what we own is best and defend it to the nth degree.
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Johnathon said, in part, "...Go into a small town cafe and ask which is best, green (John Deere) or red (Case IH). ..."
Are you kiddin' ? It would be safer to hit on a bikers girl friend in a bar. ;)

But, I digress. Is that a shooting offense? :eek:
 
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