Looking for a Cyclone type thingamabob.

Brent Dowell

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So, I've got a home made Thien baffle on a trash can hooked up to my delta dust collector.

I thinking it might be nice to get some kind of a cyclone adapter for it or something.

Wondering if anyone had any tips for what I should get.

The Super dust deputy is definitely on the list, but just tossing it out there.
 
I think aside from the Super Dust Deputy, the only other choice would be to build your own version of a Penz design. That said, I'm not sure your Delta DC has enough power to support a proper cyclone. I'm interested to see what some of the others (who know more about dust collection than me) have to say.
 
The Thein is doing pretty much the same work as a cyclone. In a review of the add on type of separators (FWW, last year as I recall) the Thein was rated very highly. Keep in mind what Vaughn mentioned, cyclones (and the Thein) reduce air flow dramatically, that's why commercial cyclones (properly designed ones) have larger impellers and motors than a single stage unit of the same capacity.
 
It has been years, but the ebay clyclones are based on one that I think it was a school in Virginia that designed one. I read up on it and my understanding was it wasn't as effective as the Pentz style (same with the Thein), but gave more performance with lower HP then the Pentz requires.
I was looking, because of height issues with my shop that pretty much eliminates any Pentz design.
 
Stu Ablett has a home-made Pentz cyclone in the Dungeon workshop in Tokyo. Maybe he can chime in on ceiling height requirements.

The concept of a cyclone is that the dust is brought in at the edge so that it spins; as the spinning slows it moves down the cyclone, until near the bottom it stops for an instant as it changes direction to be sucked up the center of the spinning column. Anything that allows spinning and slowing works, but the Pentz design works FAR better than the average trash can. And one way to improve the efficiency of the cyclone is to have a long straight feed into the cyclone so there is no turbulence as the spinning starts.

That instant of stop is where the dust is dropped, so the dust collector has to be below the cyclone, but a short wide collector should work as well as a tall collector.

The fan (impeller) is normally at the top of the cyclone, but I bet there could be an elbow at the top and the fan could be at the side. Or since the impeller itself isn't that tall perhaps it could be belt driven from the side, since the motor is usually the tall part of the fan/impeller assembly.
 
Vaughn touched on my concern about the hit that a separator or cyclone put on your airflow. This was also my experience with a separator and I got rid of it. A crude example might be:

2HP cyclone, 14-1/2" impeller = 1350 CFM
2HP bagger, 12-3/4" impeller - 1700 CFM

Even with the larger impeller (and all the other design parameters that go into a DC) the cyclone puts quite a hit on the system. Consider what one will do to your system that is not really designed with the cyclone in mind.

Given the opportunity, I would dump the cyclone and vent outside with a 3HP bagger in a heartbeat. Proximity of my neighbor's fountain prohibits this for me but, dad gets away with it at his place ;-)
 
To be quite honest, my current setup is WAY less than optimal.

Delta 50-850 (1.5hp, 1200 cfm) With decent 1 micron bags hookedup to a trash can with a home made thien baffle with 4" ductwork with too many sharp bends and too much flex hose. :rolleyes:

Adding one of these cyclones and redoing the duct work I think will only make a positive change to the system as a whole.

It currently does a much better job of trapping dust from my radial arm saw and table saw than not using it, and I don't have any problems with it collecting chips from the jointer and planer.

But I know I can do better.

I think I'm going to go with the plastic Super Dust Deputy and give that a go.
 
Venting out relieves any/all backpressure that might come from the filters...and it increases as they clog. It's usually the finest dust that causes the clogs, and poorly designed cyclones (like mine) let a lot of it pass to the filter. I put a gauge on mine to indicate when i needed to clean the filter. Anyway, it does increase the air flow. the ducting changes you might make will as well. Be aware, reducing some of the restrictions of the system may let your blower move too much air. That would make the motor draw more amps, possibly burning it out. Best to check these things with an amp meter to see if it still runs within the FLA rating on the motor plate. That was another problem with mine, I wound up putting a larger motor on it because the OEM was running about 1 full amp above FLA.
 
Be aware, reducing some of the restrictions of the system may let your blower move too much air. That would make the motor draw more amps, possibly burning it out. Best to check these things with an amp meter to see if it still runs within the FLA rating on the motor plate. That was another problem with mine, I wound up putting a larger motor on it because the OEM was running about 1 full amp above FLA.

That makes a lot of sense. I've got the tools to be able to check on that.
 
I think the biggest improvement you could make for the efficiency and effectiveness of your current system would be to dump the 1 micron bags and go with a pleated cartridge filter from Wynn. You'll vastly increase the surface area of filter medium (thus improving airflow) while also reducing the volume and size of the dust that makes it past the filter. Win-win, if you ask me. ;)

Also, the Thien baffle is already doing 98% of what a proper cyclone would do, and switching to a cyclone would quite possibly lower your airflow, not increase it.
 
Remember that if you dump 1000 cfm of air outside, you have to pull in 1000 cfm "make up" air from someplace. Ultimately that air comes from the outside, and needs to be heated or cooled (probably not a great option for our Northern friends who want to work more than a couple months per year).

Biggest hazard is that the make-up air may come down the chimney from, say, a hot water heater installed near your shop, and provide a good supply of carbon monoxide into the shop. Please let us know if you are going to do this so we can say goodbye.
 
All electric house, Wood stoves are high efficiency sealed combustion, shop is 'mostly' seperate from the house.
No heat in the garage, so in the winter it's pretty close temp wise in the garage as outside. Summer time a little breeze might be welcome!
:D


Still don't see how adding a cyclone would make my current situation worse, since I've got a 4" flex hose going to my garbage can thien baffle seperator hooked to all 4" pipes.

Can only see flow rates going up if I increase the diameter of the pipes and use a cyclone with larger input/output ports.
 
According to Bill Pentz, if you want to collect the fine dust, which is the most hazardous, you need at least an 8hp motor, a duct diameter of at least 6 inches and the impeller should move something like 4000 CFM at least if a cyclone is going to be used. With a 1.5hp blower I would not even try connecting it to cyclone, as the loss that you are going to have will render it almost in operative.
I definitively would vent outside if I could as you do. Do check Bill Pentz pages before doing anything and make some calculations with the tools and info he provides.
 
The cyclone will have more drag on the system than the Thein, which works almost as well (separation-wise). The larger ducts may (or not) be enough to offset that, but then the whole thing may be overwhelming for your DC. I will be interested to hear how it turns out.
 
I'm not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good here.

The requirements in machine, space, and dollars to achieve that fine particle free air are above and beyond what I'm prepared to tackle. Besides, Look where I live. The air in this valley is pretty full of fine particulates all the time anyway.

Did some searching around and I can't seem to find any definitive answers on what has more pressure drop (Thien or Cyclone) or why. I found a lot of discussions and a lot of opinions. I had no idea this was such a contentious topic.

To be fair, it doesn't surprise me to find so little info on the baffle, since they are all mostly home built and would vary quite a bit in build quality, performance, etc...

Since the Cyclone seems like a tool that is more geared for getting the fine dust, well, that seems like overkill.

I think at this point my best bet in order to get the most of my DC is to upgrade to 6" ducting everywhere and reduce the amount of bends and flex tube as much as possible and to build a new baffle on a bigger can.
 
...I think at this point my best bet in order to get the most of my DC is to upgrade to 6" ducting everywhere and reduce the amount of bends and flex tube as much as possible and to build a new baffle on a bigger can.

I suspect you're right. Also, don't underestimate the difference a pleated filter will make compared to filter bags.
 
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