CNC dust collection

Don Baer

Moderator
Staff member
as most of you know I stopped doing wood working sometime back due to the allergic reaction I have to many types of saw dust. It aint pretty and LOML is very concerned that will have serious health problems with the CNC. I maintain that if I can do proper dust/chip control I can minimize my risk so while waiting on parts to finish the build I am giving some thought to how I will control the dust on the machine. So far I have been able to avoid problems with the small amount of woodworking I have done by opening both ends of my shop (I have a roll up door one each end and it is only 20 feet long so with both door open I can get good air flow) I can manage to stand up wind of any cutting and using my shop vacuum and washing my hands/arms face after doing any cutting I have avoided any serious reaction. My plans right now is to hook my shop vacuum directly to a boot on the spindle and I am looking at designs. I know there are commercial ones available but each machine is different so an off the shelf solution may not be the best so I am asking the collective, how do you address this problem and how well does it work. I am even thinking about a dedicated dust collector just for the machine but I need to start with controlling the dust at the source. So any idea / pictures of how you do it will be considered.
 
I think the boot system that Jason Beam and Brent have gone with seems to make a lot of sense. The brushes mostly ride the work piece and don't travel up/down with the spindle, so you don't get those gaps allowing chips to fly out as easily.

I'm planning on a dedicated DC for mine. probably another HF DC/Wynn filter setup as I have now, it seems to do the job. I'll be looking at the boot described above for collecting at the spindle.
 
Mine works pretty well. As Darren mentioned it doesn't move up and down with the spindle, rather the spindle runs up and down through it. you set the dust boot so the brushes ride on the top of the work piece.

I use a shopvac for it and it works really well at keeping the dust under control. The only issue I have with it is since I have a watercooled spindle, the dang dust collector is just really noisy.

https://familywoodworking.org/forums/index.php?threads/cnc-dust-boot.40382/
 
So I don't know a lot about CNC and my personal habits regards dust collection definitely leave more than a little to be desired. But I'm concerned primarily that the shop vac won't have enough oomph to pull sufficient amounts of dust away.

The (relatively..) short version is that shop vacuums have very different characteristics from dust collectors. The shop vac is a high pressure low volume device. This makes it quite good at removing small amounts of fine dust within a confined area (more pressure == more speed so better at pulling small bits but not a lot of air volume). On the other hand it doesn't have enough airflow to really remove large volumes of material. The Dust Collectors on the other hand are low pressure high volume systems that can move a lot of material but sometimes falls down a bit on removing fine dust really close to the source for fine stuff. So in my case I use the shop vac when I'm running the router (the festool 1010 has a pretty decent pickup shroud that goes around the blade), and that keeps that remarkably clean (unsure on allergy dust rates..) But I don't do a LOT of router work, if I did I think I'd have to rethink how I did things because the container on the shop vac wouldn't likely keep up very well. OTOH for things like the planer the DC is the only way to go because of the huge chip volume. Where it gets tricky is with things like the tablesaw, mine only has under-blade collection with the DC so even when it's on the fine stuff on top tends to fly around, in an ideal world I'd have higher pressure but lower volume (aka a shop vac like thing) collecting on top to pick up the fine spray. The CNC has a bit larger "collection" area than a router though and you can easily shroud it so the airflow is all pulling in nicely.. And a DC's ability to move a large volume of air can remedy a lot of sins so if you have well designed pickups Like Darren mentions that seems like the way to go here.

The other consideration is disposal of the dust once collected. My DC is a modified HF with a Wynn Filter and Thien Baffle over a pre-separator drum setup. The Thien Baffle does a pretty decent job of keeping the chunks out of the filter, which is important because once the filter gets clogged it's messy to clean and the performance drops precipitously. My main issues with this setup have been: keeping the seals all good (especially around the filter), and dumping/cleaning the thing when it gets full/clogged. For the first part of sealing I've had some luck with judicious application of rubber door seals where leaks are noted. Part of the issue with sealing is that the HF unit is a bent tin can (so to speak), so getting the filters to seal was doable but required a bit of work. The other part of sealing is that my collection bin was a "free if you take two" plastic drum which is not round, flat, nor regular in any way. I addressed the drum as best as I could with a straight edge and a rasp/file but its still been a bit of a challenge. For dumping, it's kind of a mess. I'm going straight into the drum and so I have to dump the drum which .. can be a lot of dust. If I had problems in this regards I'd be seriously looking at some way to put it straight into a bag more effectively (and should anyway). The other problem is that when the filter itself gets clogged it can be a bit of a mess to clean it out. My best shot there is to use a vacuum to suck the dust out of the pleats but that's sort of slow and still has a fair bit of exposure. "Better" systems have somewhat automatic filter cleaning (ideally by reversing the airflow across the filters to blow them clean) without having to open the thing up. That would be super nice, but you're getting into $$ there.

Given your situation and setup I think your best bet is probably a DC with a setup akin to how Darren describes, but put it outside the shop and away from where you'll be directly exposed to dust that escapes if the filter, bin/bag, etc.. aren't fastened perfectly. I think you can get away with the outside-of-the-shop DC because of your lovely weather :) I think I'd forgo the drum based baffle because of the problems I've had with getting it to seal well and the issue of dumping after. The Jet knock off of the Thien Baffle - their "Vortex Cone" - or a Thien Baffe in the ring of the DC (https://woodgears.ca/reader/jensen/index.html and http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=29.0 for examples) so you can just take the bag off and dump it directly without moving the stuff around more would be my suggestion. This is assuming you don't want to spring $$$ on a larger cyclone type system.

One side note on the Thien Baffle, the separation is directly proportional to the narrowness of the slot. The narrower the slot the better. I had originally tuned mine for the tablesaw and it worked beautifully even for the drum sander. Once I got the planer the larger shavings clogged it up pretty badly though because the slot was to narrow. Widening out the slot made it work for the planer, but let more fines get into the filter from the TS and sander (there ain't no free lunch). I think the CNC would likely put our pretty small chips so you can probably get by with a narrower slot, say maybe 1/4" or 1/2" at most. I'd probably start at 1/4" if you're planning on making one.. and then make it so you can easily take it out and make it wider if you have clogs, kind of sneak up on the thing.
 
all good info, my mission today is to determine how I am going to the dust away from the work and the shoe design is what I am looking at right now weather I go with a HF 2000 CFM unit or a dust deputy or what ever that will come. I had the HF unit and it wouldn't be any big deal to set up up outside of the shop in the back yard to keep the fine dust out of the shop. As a matter of fact the machine sits about 12 inches from the back roll up door of the shop and I have a concrete slab 10'x20' "patio" behind the shop.
 
The problem with a DC is you don't want to restrict the movement of air and need a pretty large hose, 4". That's a bit tough tough to attach to a moving spindle.

The dust boot is also quite a bit different from something like a table saw, where you want/need a large volume of air moving through there.

The dust boot has a pretty small foot print, and with the brushes around the base, I find that there is plenty of airflow.
 
The problem with a DC is you don't want to restrict the movement of air and need a pretty large hose, 4". That's a bit tough tough to attach to a moving spindle.

The dust boot is also quite a bit different from something like a table saw, where you want/need a large volume of air moving through there.

The dust boot has a pretty small foot print, and with the brushes around the base, I find that there is plenty of airflow.
Brent, the hose on yours looks to be a 4" hose ???. I am assuming that your spindle is an 80 mm diameter. Most shop vacs are about 2" diameter :unsure: o_O
 
The problem with a DC is you don't want to restrict the movement of air and need a pretty large hose, 4". That's a bit tough tough to attach to a moving spindle.

Fair point, could you hard pipe it to somewhere over the center of the CNC machine and then drop a 4" flex hose down to whole spindle assembly withouth it being to much of a problem? I'm also wondering how much more chip volume Don's machine might produce compared to yours (I think yours is a bit smaller?), I don't really know the expectation there so might have to adjust my baselines :)

I should note that measured CFM on the HF is closer to 400CFM not 2000, that would be with all the guards and hoses removed.. maybe :rolleyes: It still works pretty well and for one machine with a short run is still imho a decent value.
 
Brent, the hose on yours looks to be a 4" hose ???. I am assuming that your spindle is an 80 mm diameter. Most shop vacs are about 2" diameter :unsure: o_O

It's 2.5" inside diameter. I looked and I a 4" hose might not be as bad as I thought, if you can keep the air moving. Just a bit bigger inlet on the boot.

The brushes on the dust boot not only help to 'focus' the vacuum, but they also keep the chips from flying out. I wonder what size bits you plan on using, which I guess depends on the type of projects.
 
The brushes on the dust boot not only help to 'focus' the vacuum, but they also keep the chips from flying out. I wonder what size bits you plan on using, which I guess depends on the type of projects.
I am looking at about the same size hose, I am trying to come up with a design to put the hose behind the gantry if I center the intake above the machine then I will only need to have the hose move 12 inches in "Y" and 24" in X which should keep it out of the way.
Right now I have no idea I only have 2 collets for the spindle a 6.5 mm and a 1/2 inch for shaft size. I am looking to order a few more but I doubt if I will go above 1/2 dia bits but who knows I might even try a fly cutter lol. with a 1/2" shaft and 4 hp spindle it does open up some possibilities. At 3200 RPM that spindle runs just a smooth as it does at 24000.
 
Behind the gantry makes sense, but I had a hard time designing mine to work. I might give it another shot at some point.
 
I wouldn't neck the HF DC down to 2.5", the airflow (due to the lower pressure) would be terrible. If you're using the smaller hose, the large shop vac would be a better choice.
 
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