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Cost of Making vs. Buying Cabinets

I know you can do it. I know it will be less money and I know it will take longer than if you have it done.:thumb: If you go back and look at dates on that thread you will see that it was almost a year in the making. Granted a lot of the work was done nights and weekends and nothing got done until I had earned the money to buy it. so that added some time:thumb::rofl:
But if you have a way to deal with the kitchen being down for an extended time frame let it rip.:thumb: Oh and we like pictures no matter which way you go. ;)
 
Cynthia,

I cannot help but think that you can do it and do it well. You have that spark, the one that says, "I'll do it---or else."

Myrna and I remodeled our kitchen long before woodworking was even a vague thought. We purchased the very top line from one of the big boxes. Quite frankly I think of them as junk cabinets. Yes they are solid hard wood. Yes they have the self closing European hardware. Yes the knobs were expensive. However, they are still the poorest cabinets we have ever lived with---except when we lived in the slums while I went to get my doc degree.

Even the fancy knobs wore out and have been replaced. Quite a few of the (I won't say who, but a top brand) Euro hinges have broken and been replaced.

All of that from two adults, both of whom take excellent care of things. I'm driving an eleven year old Hyundi Sonata---It looks almost new, inside and out for example. The same type of things applies to my tools, our clothes, our furniture, my wife's jewelry, etc. My Omega watch went through WWII with me. It looks good (I admit I have not worn a watch for the last 10-15 years however.).

These two people have kitchen cabinets that look a bit shabby with wood that is splitting (Not where it shows.) and they are the top quality cabinets---Just think what the lower quality cabinets are like. In spite of the high price, these cabinets were not made by craftsmen nor caring hands. You would build cabinets and you would care and you would have the caring hands that build well. I still remember and am still impressed by the box that you produced for the box swap in your first year in woodworking---You remember that---Back when you were writing threads for Family Woodworking at the rate of 2 or 3 a day asking woodworking questions.

Oh my, it is past "count down." Count down is when I start my get ready for bed routine.

Clarification: I mentioned Myrna when I talked about us, etc. Myrna passed away in December 2013. I said that she took good care of things---she did---me. I said that she did not break or damage things---she did---Me. It is just not fair that we didn't kick off at the same time.

Enjoy,
JimB

Go Cynthia!
 
If you want to really cheap it up, look on craigs list for cabnets pulled from a remodel job.

If I were looking for cheap cabnets, I'd buy low end ones and not compare the pennies.

making decent cabnets is a lot of work and planning, drawers, shelves, doors, etc.

Melamine covered particle board of the cheapest quality will probably look nicer

than a do-it-yourself job where you try to save money.

A money saver is getting cabnets without handles, and without doors (if you can

tolerate that look).

AA no doors.jpg
 
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First, thank you to Chuck and Jim for the kind words. I'm sure I could do it, just not sure I want to. And I know my work will never be as good as some of you, but I do think it would be good enough to be proud of. We'll have to go out for bids first, and then think about it some. It would take me a year to make that many cabinets, and I'd have to make everything ahead of time and store it until needed. I work way too slowly to start tearing anything out until I'm done. You're right, Jim, in that I am the type who when others say I can't that's when I'm very likely to dig my heels in and say, watch me. When friends told me I couldn't grow corn in my yard in Calgary, I decided to grow it in big barrel pots by the front door for everyone to see (and shake their heads). Jim, if I do make more cabinets, rest assured there will be lots more questions for the board. I can feel them bubbling to the surface already.

Jim, I'm so sorry to hear about Myrna. I didn't realize that she had died, so I went back and read the threads about her in December. My sincerest condolences.

Scott, I'm not trying to be cheap. I don't want junk. I also don't want to spend 25K on cabinets which would be easy to do for 40 linear feet. So I'm exploring my options. That's all.
 
Scott R Smith said:
Melamine covered particle board of the cheapest quality will probably look nicer

than a do-it-yourself job where you try to save money.

A money saver is getting cabnets without handles, and without doors (if you can

tolerate that look).

View attachment 87593
Click to expand...

Sometimes I wish I saw melamine on decent plywood. (my brain wonders if spills would be easier to clean in it and I would like to try it)
Besides the open door design, and depending on how your taxes are figured, I remember someone I knew, LONG ago, that went with shelves instead (lowered property tax figure on initial home build/appraisal). If they were alive today, I think they would have used probably off the shelf closet organizer systems for more of the commercial look.
Going the other way, I know a few who have no eaves and want the cabinets to go all the way up, for less to dust, and the top part becomes seasonal storage (things like kids Christmas gifts).
As they say, alive and dead, more then one way to skin a cat.:eek::D
 
My 2 cents if you don't mind.

I would take the time to actually build an upper and lower base cabinet out of less expensive materials that will be great for a garage. After building one set, you will have a better understanding of what it takes to make them and then you can decide if it is something you want to take on. It will also let you see if the tools you have are going to help you achieve the final results you want. It doesn't do any good to save $4000 in material/labor if you turn around and spend it on tools. This will also let you make mistakes and learn from them without throwing away a lot of money.

One of the options as far as tools is what I have seen from time to time on Craigslist. People re-doing a kitchen will buy good quality tools that maintain their value and use it for the kitchen cabinet work and then turn around and sell them on Craigslist. (I saw where someone was selling a number of Festool tools and vacuum, that had all been bought and used on a single house renovation and then sold.)

Take the time to layout and design all the cabinets and create a material cut list and lay them out on graph paper to maximize the yield of the plywood sheets. Anything that has a common dimension, cut them all at one time, so they are all dead on consistent. Label each piece as you go and check it off cut list as being complete. If you are doing panel doors, mill all of the stiles and rails at one time to the finished width/thickness, leaving them long for trimming up at assembly time.

Think of the process as an assembly line, do common components as a group, don't do individual cabinets one at a time from start to finish. Pre-drill all holes that you can.

You also don't have to assembly them until you are ready to install them. So you can take months to carefully cut all the pieces and stack the components un-assembled, taking up a faction of the space as fully assembled cabinets.

As you get all of the components done for a specific cabinet section, use stretch wrap to bundle them together. The hardware for each cabinet can be bundled with the pack as well, so nothing gets misplaced.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Pratt-Retail-Specialties-5-in-x-1000-ft-Stretch-Wrap-5005001/202029371

The idea is to make them like the pre-manufactured cabinet kits that you can buy at the Borgs and just assemble. You are just breaking down the process into manageable steps: Design the cabinets, Create cut list, buy material, Mill material, organize material into groups, then assemble and install.

If you have multiple walls with cabinets and you can split it into doing one side then doing another side, so you will only need to assembly the cabinets for one side at a time.

Rob
 
To me, the box work is the easy part, and it's also the part that no one really see's. Your door and drawer fronts are the face of your cabinets, and personally I don't like subbing that stuff out for that reason.


I've worked in too small a space for basically the entire time I've been in business. Start with the small stuff first so you aren't working around all the big stuff. Make all of your doors and drawer faces. Then your drawers. Get them out of the way. Stack them up in a corner, or finish them and put them in the house somewhere. Since you're in door mode yet, make all of your paneled ends, or do them along side the doors. Then concentrate on your boxes, starting with your face frames.

If you build one cabinet at a time start to completion, you'll pull your hair out. Efficiency comes from setting up and doing one task until it is done. I can make 10 doors in slightly more time than it takes to make 5 doors, its a long ways from twice as long.

I'd lean on some local cabinet makers. If somebody wandered in an asked if I could send their doors through the widebelt, I'd probably charge them $100 an hour. Two passes takes about 15 minutes to get the average amount of doors ready for finish sanding. Ask them if you could buy hardware through them. I pay about half through my wholesale account for a set of Blum slides as you would with out one and going through basically anywhere over the counter like Rockler. I'd mark it up a bit, but you'll still pay way less, and I carry a ton of inventory typically, and if I don't have it, it'd be there the next day. Same with knobs/pulls. Same knob costs twice as much through Menards. Same. Exact. Knob.


(edit)- Personally, I hate pre-finished plywood. It's miserable to work with being you have to be so careful about scratches. And if you have to fix something, its a pain. Finishing interiors is easy. Easier than taping off the openings in my opinion.
 
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Cynthia and Karl...

This is the ONLY area I find lacking in Linux, Woodworking software. Last I looked, there was no Cutlist, or Sketchup for it, and I haven't even heard of Cabinetware. I had gone mostly to drawing things out (had one Windows machine for cutlist, but haven't booted into Windows for a long time, just seemed like a waste (expecting ton's of updates to take time away from working with it).
What OS are you guys using?
 
Cabnetware from Planit Solutions. I'm using the wretched failed experiment known as Windows 8.

Cut lists for anything other than doors and drawers is useless my opinion.
 
A few people suggested refacing cabinets as a cost-effective solution, but that won't work here. First, the kitchen has a strange shape and there aren't many cabinets. Once a couple of walls come down there will be a need for more cabinets. Most of the existing ones have strange shapes and are not very well designed, as in a drawer above the fridge. Yes, that's what I said. These have a had a lot of wear, and I don't like the wide and thick face frames. I'll keep these cabinets, but in another room, like the basement.


IMG_0707 (1).jpgIMG_0705 (1).jpg
 
First I think you can do it, will it be as fast as a pro, no, but you can do it.

I've not had the time to read through every post, sorry I'm busy, but I would suggest that your workshop or mud room could use a wall cabinet or two, so make a practice run first that will let you know what kind of new tools you might need and you will have a better understanding of what goes into making a cabinet.

Cheers!
 
Cynthia, those cabs you show are easy to reface.
If you can pop off the face frames you can make end panels for the cabinet ends and just build face frames and doors.
but like you say, the plywood is not that great, that's different.
 
Can I ask: how well does that sliding shelf above the fridge work? Off hand, it's looks a little awkward, but maybe not as bad as just a swinging door.
 
allen levine said:
Cynthia, those cabs you show are easy to reface.
If you can pop off the face frames you can make end panels for the cabinet ends and just build face frames and doors.
but like you say, the plywood is not that great, that's different.
Click to expand...

Allen, the cabinets are pretty chewed up inside, so I'd rather just take them out and use them in another room.

fred hargis said:
Can I ask: how well does that sliding shelf above the fridge work? Off hand, it's looks a little awkward, but maybe not as bad as just a swinging door.
Click to expand...

Fred, it's the worst, most idiotic thing I've ever seen.
 
Vaughn McMillan said:
I think they simply installed it upside down. If it was inverted, just think how easy it would be to get stuff out of that drawer. :D
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I don't know why I didn't think of that. You're just a wizard, Vaughn.

fred hargis said:
...Awwww, come on, tell us how you really feel....
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Of course, part of the problem is the refrigerator is 7" longer (deeper) than the cabinet above/around it, so no cabinet would work well. It's just a poorly designed kitchen. I've had a few kitchens in my day, and this one is the worst for user unfriendliness. The counters are a rough textured (and blue) laminate, so they never feel clean because it's always rough when you run your hand over it. Have I mentioned my pink and blue vinyl floor?
 
Cynthia White said:
Karl, I'll send you a PM. THANKS.
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Drawings sent.

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954832_10204326564555470_3824086866756808493_n.jpg



1533745_10204326564475468_290470402190173782_n.jpg
 
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