Cost of Making vs. Buying Cabinets

[Dan Noren]

a ways back, for lack of project progress pictures for my newsletter's how its done section, i had what i called the casa burro project. i had taken a craftsman bungalow floor plan, and furnished each room. a sketchup practice you may call it. one of the rooms to be done up was the kitchen. i had decided that i wanted to design the cabinets to my liking. after looking to see how they were actually made, i had at it. here is how it turned out.

 

[Kevin Sadaj]

Bless your heart, Jim Bradley.

Cynthia, you are a woodworker. I say go for it. Learn, take your time, make some mistakes. Heck, why not try hand cutting dovetails for all drawers. You will be an expert at it when it's done. And through all the time and money you spend, you will look back and say, "that was a good time, I miss it!"

And if it will make your family feel better, sure why not tell them you'll save money. Less money on crummy mass produced cabinets, in exchange for something you made yourself. And satisfaction and self esteem. Immeasurable.

 

[Cynthia White]

That's nice, Dan. Kevin, you are very kind to me. As Karl suggested, and luck would have it, I've been introduced to a very talented local young cabinetmaker, who sounds quite keen to work with me in any way--to make the cabinets or just the doors/drawers or just to give me some advice and a decent price on hardware. So I'm beginning to feel like I have some good local support as well as FWW. I think I'll finish the bookcases, then spend some more time on the plans for the kitchen before deciding. Shelves are almost done, so I just need to finish the trim......a few more days.....

 

[Alan Bienlein]

Can I ask: how well does that sliding shelf above the fridge work? Off hand, it's looks a little awkward, but maybe not as bad as just a swinging door.

They actually work very well if you know what your doing in designing a kitchen. Who ever did the ones in Cynthia's should look for another line of work.

Here are a couple of photos from my kitchen I did. There are three pull-outs above the fridge that Norma just loves!


If your interested here is a link to my kitchen build. http://familywoodworking.org/forums/showthread.php?17910-Pecan-kitchen-cabinet-build There are a lot of photos and maybe some ideas you might like.

 

[Cynthia White]

Thanks for that link, Alan. I'll go back and read that thread again. We all know you do beautiful work.

They actually work very well if you know what your doing in designing a kitchen. Who ever did the ones in Cynthia's should look for another line of work.

The guy who built the house and designed my kitchen had a lot of great ideas. He attached exterior wood door/window trim with a framing nailer but didn't fasten or nail in any of the interior window casings, for example. Occasionally one falls out in the middle of the night. Oh well, one room at a time.

 

[allen levine]

They actually work very well if you know what your doing in designing a kitchen. Who ever did the ones in Cynthia's should look for another line of work.

Here are a couple of photos from my kitchen I did. There are three pull-outs above the fridge that Norma just loves!
View attachment 87704View attachment 87705View attachment 87706

If your interested here is a link to my kitchen build. http://familywoodworking.org/forums/showthread.php?17910-Pecan-kitchen-cabinet-build There are a lot of photos and maybe some ideas you might like.

my wife cant reach anything above the fridge in the cabinets.
I like the idea of pull outs in side those cabs because I cant reach anything in the back and with a pullout everything would me so much more accessible without a ladder or chair to stand on.

 

[Robert Engel]

First of all, there's nothing wrong with using double sided melamine particle board for your boxes. I built my kitchen using system 32 frameless methods and loved it.

The money I saved on the boxes I used for my door fronts, which are raised panel hickory.
One advantage with frameless is you can install pup pouts in lowers instead of shelves. Guarantee your wife will LOVE this feature. Use 100 pound full ext slides.

Another is the simplicity of fitting doors with euro style hinges.
Check out the book by Danny Proulx

 

[Chuck Thoits]

can always put these in http://www.hafele.co.uk/shop/p/pull-down-baskets/pull-down-two-tier-wire-shelf/89326/5765

 

[Chuck Thoits]

That's not an advantage my face frame cabinets all have pull outs in them. The advantage they claim is that you don't lose any space to the frame. 30 inch cabinet is 30 wide outside and the indise would be 28.5 inches. With a face frame you lose whatever is hanging past the plywood both ways.

 

[Ted Calver]

I'm a satisfied user (not builder) of euro style 32mm cabinets. As Chuck suggested, the face frame steals from available pull out width and you gain that space with the euro style. Another thing we liked was the clip on toe kicks for the base cabinets which made it easier to clean up spills and spray for bugs. They also enabled us use that under cabinet space to hide valuables when we were out of town. We were wishing we had asked for some shallow drawers in the toe kicks of our current set of cabs. They come in handy for cookie sheets and other large flat stuff.

 

[Karl Brogger]

Euro cabinets make me die a little inside each time I see them.

 

[Cynthia White]

Euro cabinets make me die a little inside each time I see them.

lol. you don't like frameless cabinets? All of them?

 

[Karl Brogger]

It's pretty rare that a frameless cabinet gets a positive rise outta me. Not my style at all. I'm not a fan of overlay either.
I do love the euro hardware though. With some hardware jujitsu and finagaling of numbers it's a lifesaver when doing inset doors. There just isn't anything available that attaches to face frame that works well.

 

[Chuck Thoits]

There just isn't anything available that attaches to face frame that works well.

??????????

 

[Karl Brogger]

For inset , Blum makes a plate attaches to the backside of the frame. They tend to come loose, and they are really awkward to install. The best way I've found is to use a plate that mounts to the partition or cabinet side. You need to be careful what your pockets are behind the face frame are. The plates are only available in 18, 9, and 6mm, so your pocket needs to be 3/4, 3/8, or 1/4 to work with a full crank hinge. I use 1-7/8" stile and rail for my frames for the most part, with a 3/4" partition, you'll have a 3/4" pocket on one side, and a 3/8" pocket on the other.

 

[fred hargis]

You can also build the cabinets with the face frames flush to the interior of the carcase. This actually works very well and allows the use of the Euro hardware with a face frame look (the stuff made for frameless style). When you have an exposed end, you fill it in with a panel. I've done some of these and suspect I'll do it again if I decide to do our kitchen.

 

[Chuck Thoits]

For inset , Blum makes a plate attaches to the backside of the frame. They tend to come loose, and they are really awkward to install. .

I must be installing them wrong. I don't find the hard to install or have I had a problem with them coming loose.

 

[Cynthia White]

You can also build the cabinets with the face frames flush to the interior of the carcase. This actually works very well and allows the use of the Euro hardware with a face frame look (the stuff made for frameless style). When you have an exposed end, you fill it in with a panel. I've done some of these and suspect I'll do it again if I decide to do our kitchen.

I've made 3 (bathroom) cabinets in my short woodworking career. They were frameless, but on the exposed edges, I did put strips of wood the exact thickness of the plywood, so they looked finished (I didn't use tape). On the ends I put wood on it so it looks like it's frame and panel, but it's not. Doors were frame and panel. So even though I have wood on the edges, these are still considered "frameless", right? This is how I would make them again.

 

[fred hargis]

Sure sound like they're frameless to me....

 

[Karl Brogger]

You can also build the cabinets with the face frames flush to the interior of the carcase. This actually works very well and allows the use of the Euro hardware with a face frame look (the stuff made for frameless style). When you have an exposed end, you fill it in with a panel. I've done some of these and suspect I'll do it again if I decide to do our kitchen.

Too much material going up in smoke being each stile would have to have two partitions behind it. Doing that also doubles the number of points to hit dead on for things to line up when setting your frame. The alignment issue could go away pretty easily if you don't dado everything together. Even if I've got a drawer opening where I could flush it out with the partition or ends, I don't bother for that reason. I just use build out for each drawer opening. If the carcass or the face frame is off a few thousandths in one way or another, it won't show, either the adjustment in the hinge is adequate, or the buildout for the drawer masks that failure. I also don't care for seeing the gap of the shelf to the partition/side head on when you open a door, and prefer having that visually behind the frame.

I must be installing them wrong. I don't find the hard to install or have I had a problem with them coming loose.

I used them on a few jobs, and for a couple of things I built for myself. I wasn't impressed. I did like the cam adjustment for height though. I didn't say hard, I said awkward. When they are tight to a partition, its tough to get your head, impact, and fasteners in the hole at once to attach them, especially if it is a small opening. The trick with them is to drill your frame before its on the box. You also need to put a third screw into the center hole. Preferably as long a screw as you can use that doesn't poke through the face. The screws will still come loose, that's just the nature of the beast. The wood swells and shrinks slowly turning the screw out, plywood seems to be less affected than solid. When I've got an angled corner cabinet, I have to use these hinges, or do something that creates more problems like add a flange coming back to mount the euro plate to. The plywood

The downside to the way I do it, is you've really got to have it going on when it comes to laying out your box work so you are working with the various plate sizes, and having to carry more hinge plates. It also doesn't accommodate wider stiles with out either adding blocking or another partition.