Dust Collector on 1K range

Dale Wallace

Member
Messages
54
Location
Chicago, Illinois
I've decided to finally upgrade my horrible hf unit to something a little more professional. I currently have a Wynn Filter on it and have been using it for a year. I am aware how many people love this thing and so many use it. But that's not how it is on my case. I had to replace this dc 2 times because of issues in the past 2 years and putting the Wynn Filter on it even though helped a lot it's still not even decent. Leaks air through everywhere, even the sides of the dc and the bottom sides of filter which are covered at the moment to prevent leaks. It's right next to my tools and suction is okay. I mean considering the price I paid for it is great but it doesn't satisfy my needs. The machine is good for the money, just not if you use it everyday for hours.
I'm considering on upgrading to either of the following models:

Powermatic PM1300TX with 2 Micron Filter & Turbo Cone

Jet DC1100VX-CK with 2 Micron Filter and Vortex Cone

They are single stage but the cone will probably expand the life of the filter and in the future I can upgrade it. Also I'm planning on using it right next to my tools and using just one tool at a time. My shop is tiny eitherway.
I would really appreciate some feedback from anyone that had any of those dust collectors. Unfortunately I can't find much information online.
I've heard so many people saying to stay with the hf model but I don't get how someone can be satisfied with this thing. I hope I can get better suction from my upgrade.
My main concern is working well with my Laguna Table Saw, which basically inside has a 2.5 hose that is connected directly to the outside 4in port and the overarm is connected to a Festool dust extractor. 81TCB96G6bL._AC_SL1500_.jpgScreenshot_20211011-192700__01.jpgLGT-FUSION1_animate_3.gif

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

Vaughn McMillan

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
33,842
Location
ABQ NM
I haven't used either of the ones pictured, but of those two I'd go with the Powermatic because it does away with the flex hose.

I have the Harbor Freight DC with a Wynn filter. I added a Thien baffle, which really helped keep the bigger chips and shavings out of the filter. I also added rubber weatherstripping around the unit where the bag attaches. That helped improve the seal. I've been fortunate that the seal where the filter sits seems to be effective, but I can see how HF's quality control might not make that a universal experience. My flex hose between the impeller and separator developed a leak a few years ago, and for now I just have it wrapped with plastic stretch wrap. It's not ideal, but it stopped the leaking (for now).
 

fred hargis

Member
Messages
1,048
Location
Wapakoneta, OH
No experience with either of those models. But I would look for soemehing that has tighter filtration, commonly 1 micron is suggested and that does seem to be a sweet spot, tighter is better. Otherwise I suspect that either of them would fill the bill. Just be aware, choking any DC down to 2.5" just isn't the best way to do things. With a hose that small, a vac wil catch a lot more of the dust than the DC; they (DCs) aren't made to work that way. I'm surprised that Laguna put such a small hose on the saw, unless it's a nod toward using a vac at that connection.
 

Dale Wallace

Member
Messages
54
Location
Chicago, Illinois
I haven't used either of the ones pictured, but of those two I'd go with the Powermatic because it does away with the flex hose.

I have the Harbor Freight DC with a Wynn filter. I added a Thien baffle, which really helped keep the bigger chips and shavings out of the filter. I also added rubber weatherstripping around the unit where the bag attaches. That helped improve the seal. I've been fortunate that the seal where the filter sits seems to be effective, but I can see how HF's quality control might not make that a universal experience. My flex hose between the impeller and separator developed a leak a few years ago, and for now I just have it wrapped with plastic stretch wrap. It's not ideal, but it stopped the leaking (for now).
You have a nice setup! Nice job with the mods on the hf. I found some use of my old shirts and used them to seal all the spots that leak air on the filter, hose and motor. The funny thing is all the sleeves that drop down from the filter make it look like a huge Squid sucking the frame :,-)
I could always return the hf since my warranty is still active and get a new one, add the Wynn Filter and sell it.

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 

Dale Wallace

Member
Messages
54
Location
Chicago, Illinois
No experience with either of those models. But I would look for soemehing that has tighter filtration, commonly 1 micron is suggested and that does seem to be a sweet spot, tighter is better. Otherwise I suspect that either of them would fill the bill. Just be aware, choking any DC down to 2.5" just isn't the best way to do things. With a hose that small, a vac wil catch a lot more of the dust than the DC; they (DCs) aren't made to work that way. I'm surprised that Laguna put such a small hose on the saw, unless it's a nod toward using a vac at that connection.
Yeah that hose was an interesting idea from Laguna for sure, it's a love and hate relationship.
Do you have any suggestions for dust collectors with a 1 micron filter ?
The Mobile Laguna and Rockler Dust Right came to my mind. It would be nice If I can get away that cheap.51316-11-1000.jpg54818-03-1000_1.jpg

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 

Rennie Heuer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,490
Location
Constantine, MI
Emptying that plastic bag on a single stage unit is going to become real painful, real soon. I would seriously consider adding a super dust deputy to any of the units you're considering
1634047035822.png

Or, if the budget allows
1634046986481.png

Here's how I set mine up (by the way, notice the bag is full - I was late in emptying the drum. :pullhair: :rofl:
IMG_1355.JPG
 
Last edited:

Dale Wallace

Member
Messages
54
Location
Chicago, Illinois
Emptying that plastic bag on a single stage unit is going to become real painful, real soon. I would seriously consider adding a super dust deputy to any of the units you're considering
View attachment 118283

Or, if the budget allows
View attachment 118282

Here's how I set mine up (by the way, notice the bag is full - I was late in emptying the drum. :pullhair: :rofl:
View attachment 118284
I am definitely going to add a dust deputy after a couple of months

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 

Ryan Mooney

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
6,743
Location
The Gorge Area, Oregon
Thank you Jay, much appreciated! I thought these 2 dust collectors had this similar flex tube but I may be wrong. I'll research it

The flex between the filter.& the impeller steals a fair bit of suction. I "solved" that problem with my HF by rebuilding a new cart, turning the impeller on it's side, and running it straight into the filter with some 5" stovepipe. It.. helped.. some...

The PM1300TX looks to have hard smooth pipe which should help some I'd think (but square.. IDK what that will do, the one thing I'm sure about with fluid dynamics and airflow is that I don't understand it..).

No experience with either of these, but I feel your pain. The HF is "fine" for lower pressure, right at the machine, not to many chips, not to restricted.. I have everything at nominal 5" hose which also "helped" but things like my jointer/planer it still leaves a fair bit on the floor and the bandsaw/tablesaw is.. meh "ok but not great".

I put a 30g bucket with the Thien under mine as well, and imho 30g is minimum sized container I'd use if you have a planer or anything else that generates much for fluffy shavings. I did loose some suction with that as well, I think the stovepipe mod basically balanced that out.

Some more oomph would definitely be helpful. I don't think there's a real substitute for HP and impeller size for that (obviously impeller design, etc.. matter.. but in the end you need the power to make the thing go). Following that more filter surface area is also useful. The HF has better suction with no filter (not helpful inside.. but.. if you can vent outside it's a decent boost), so units with 2 or more filters will perform better (and also why pleated filters are better than bag because of the increased surface area).

IF (big if) I was interested in another single stage unit.. AND (big and haha) I had 240v capability I'd consider a 3HP unit like this Grizz in that price range

There are some cyclone units in that price range but they're mostly short cone (poor separation) and lower than I think is probably useful HP (the separator steals a fair bit of airflow..) so I haven't been super excited about most of them so far.
 

Dale Wallace

Member
Messages
54
Location
Chicago, Illinois
The flex between the filter.& the impeller steals a fair bit of suction. I "solved" that problem with my HF by rebuilding a new cart, turning the impeller on it's side, and running it straight into the filter with some 5" stovepipe. It.. helped.. some...

The PM1300TX looks to have hard smooth pipe which should help some I'd think (but square.. IDK what that will do, the one thing I'm sure about with fluid dynamics and airflow is that I don't understand it..).

No experience with either of these, but I feel your pain. The HF is "fine" for lower pressure, right at the machine, not to many chips, not to restricted.. I have everything at nominal 5" hose which also "helped" but things like my jointer/planer it still leaves a fair bit on the floor and the bandsaw/tablesaw is.. meh "ok but not great".

I put a 30g bucket with the Thien under mine as well, and imho 30g is minimum sized container I'd use if you have a planer or anything else that generates much for fluffy shavings. I did loose some suction with that as well, I think the stovepipe mod basically balanced that out.

Some more oomph would definitely be helpful. I don't think there's a real substitute for HP and impeller size for that (obviously impeller design, etc.. matter.. but in the end you need the power to make the thing go). Following that more filter surface area is also useful. The HF has better suction with no filter (not helpful inside.. but.. if you can vent outside it's a decent boost), so units with 2 or more filters will perform better (and also why pleated filters are better than bag because of the increased surface area).

IF (big if) I was interested in another single stage unit.. AND (big and haha) I had 240v capability I'd consider a 3HP unit like this Grizz in that price range

There are some cyclone units in that price range but they're mostly short cone (poor separation) and lower than I think is probably useful HP (the separator steals a fair bit of airflow..) so I haven't been super excited about most of them so far.
Wow thank you for all this information!! This Grizzly looks nice! But my space is very limited for it. I could have it outside and run pipes inside my shop but I don't know if it would be a risk exposing it to the freezing cold winter of Chicago lol I can build a small shed for it though. Any concerns ?

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 

Dale Wallace

Member
Messages
54
Location
Chicago, Illinois
Unfortunately I don't have 240v. But I'm trying to get a hold of my electrician to get a quote for it. This is a nice DC, I haven't seen it before, I'll do some research on it today

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 

Ryan Mooney

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
6,743
Location
The Gorge Area, Oregon
But my space is very limited for it.

Yeah I hear that problem :). The main things I like are more HP and the dual canisters. The downsides are power & space.. alas.


Not sure how much the cold is actually a problem, I'd guess some risk of the cold + humidity causing issues with the bits in the starter? Be useful to know anyway!

Also note that the Grizzly spec is CFM and zero static pressure.. which.. is kind of a useless measure. it would be nice to find actual fan curves (I looked and didn't find but they might exist..)

The Powermatic claims 1,300 @ 6" but it's also a 2 micron filter so I reckon they get a bit back from that vs the 1 micron.

Doing a head<->head comparison is difficult when they data is all garbage :rolleyes: :cry:

Note: Neither of the Grizzly's have the "filter cone" or "vortex cone" like the Jet/PM which is .. kind of a variant on the Thien baffle.. but you *can* add an internal baffle (or a pre-separator .. but probably not both.. ):

Some internal baffle threads:

http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=535.0


Pretty sure this is what Vaughn build on his HF unit. Being more difficult with myself, I built a top-hat style which has the advantage of dumping into a 30g drum.. but looses (probably a fair bit..) more CFM and is quite a bit more of a pain to build.
 

Mark Patrick

New member
Messages
1
Location
Loxahatchee,Fl
The cold won't hurt the DC, but that thing may suck a lot of heated air out. I've seen a lot of folks from folks that did that and say it doesn't make a difference in the heating bill. I guess I'm still a little skeptical of that.
You only need to worry about that if you are exhausting outside the shop. Here in Fl we lose the a/c and don't worry about the cold. Since my new shop isn't going to be conditioned air i pln on exhausting outside to the chicken coop area

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk
 

Dale Wallace

Member
Messages
54
Location
Chicago, Illinois
So I've been seriously considering spending more money and getting a 2 Stage collector. What caught my attention was the Laguna CFlux 1. I also saw the Oneida Mini Gorilla and the Jet JCD 1.5. The Oneida gives 583 cfm at 2 static pressure, the Jet much less, I think 350 cfm and the Laguna seems to be the biggest at 900. There are a couple more, like the Shop Fox and the Grizzly but it looks like many people have been experiencing problems with them and Grizzly can't do much about it. Has any of you had any experience with any of the machines ?
 

Ed Thomas

Member
Messages
340
Location
Toronto, Canada
So I've been seriously considering spending more money and getting a 2 Stage collector. What caught my attention was the Laguna CFlux 1. I also saw the Oneida Mini Gorilla and the Jet JCD 1.5. The Oneida gives 583 cfm at 2 static pressure, the Jet much less, I think 350 cfm and the Laguna seems to be the biggest at 900. There are a couple more, like the Shop Fox and the Grizzly but it looks like many people have been experiencing problems with them and Grizzly can't do much about it. Has any of you had any experience with any of the machines ?
Don't forget Bill Pentz and the ClearVue cyclones ...
 
Top