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English vs metric

Don Baer

Don Baer

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this is more for the us based guys but hey you metric guys feel free to pipe in....lol
I work in both and really it depends on what I am doing. If I am doing carpentry etc. I use inches etc. mostly because that how I buy my materials but If I an starting from scratch where there is no established dimension such as 3 D printing I find it much easier to work in metric. I am equally comfortable in either system. For all of the design work in Fusion I have the default set up to mm. So what are your thoughts.
 
Don’t write off decimal inches lol. I have a set of calipers with inches broken into tenths, hundredths and thousands and they’re surprisingly handy. If I’m working in fractions I’ll use the largest denominator that fits my precision requirement (if I’m working to 32 or 64 all of my fractions use that base so 1/2 is 32/64 on the plan), I’ve found this reduces errors somewhat.

I think you kind of have to use both at this point unless you’re mostly doing rough carpentry or hand work. Any of the digital stuff throws you into metric pretty fast. But dimensional lumber work and framing is imperial so use what works where it works.
 
For a guy that has worked in several industries throughout my career and have a bs degree in engineering mectric is definately part of my life. I would rather be fully metric, but I live in the US. I have made master gages down to 10 millionths of an inch

Stufying strength of materials, force vector analysis, and so many other things in college just puts one into a metric frame of mind.

I find grams in the kitchen easier that trying to work out ounces.

I prefer metric but my tape measures are inches.
 
Both. Whichever is handy. Spent a lot of time in europe, where meters, liters and kilos are the standard. Once you get used to it it's a great system.
 
I'm equally proficient in both systems, but prefer SI (Metric). However, here in the US, we're pretty much stuck with Imperial (Inch), so that's what gets used most.
Having worked in Engineering, which is nearly pure SI, I became quite good in doing all the conversion calculations for the non-metric Neanderthals. :giggle:

Back in the 90s, the Society of Automotive Engineers insisted that all new SAE standards were to be written with Metric measurements, and all older standards were to be converted as they were being revised/updated. Some of the conversions - like 2.15" =5.461 mm made for some interesting numbers, and 'rounding' in either direction lost all the precision. Somewhat confusing/exasperating. :unsure:

What's interesting (to me, at least) is that nearly all manufacturing in the US is done to Metric specs. Everything from cans and trucks to small appliances is Metric. Even canned goods and bottled water are measured in Metric and 'converted' to Imperial. So why are the government and schools so committed to Imperial and resistant to change/conformity?
 
Don Baer said:
this is more for the us based guys but hey you metric guys feel free to pipe in....lol
I work in both and really it depends on what I am doing. If I am doing carpentry etc. I use inches etc. mostly because that how I buy my materials but If I an starting from scratch where there is no established dimension such as 3 D printing I find it much easier to work in metric. I am equally comfortable in either system. For all of the design work in Fusion I have the default set up to mm. So what are your thoughts.
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Same. Carpentry projects are pretty much only ones I do in inches anymore. I did buy a good metric tape measure and meter stick, so theres not much reason for doing inches anymore. Pretty much just habit.
 
While I, think, and visualize, in Imperial, all my woodworking is in Metric.
The amount of 'tick marks' on an Imperial rule, is for me, way too many.
It is much easier, with a Metric rule. Just bought a new Metric tape, too. YMMV
 
Ryan Mooney said:
I'm not sure that the folks who made a lot of older stuff even owned a tape measure
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you ever watch an electrician setting outlet boxes in the houses once they are frame. The traditional height is 12-18 inched from the floor. The electrician will set a hammer on the floor with the head down, handle up and place the box at the height of the end of the handle then hell pick up the hammer and pound in the nails and move on to the next one. takes less than a minute. No tape measure but the boxes will be about 13 inches and when the floor is in they'll be around 12 but they will all be equal....lol
 
Ryan Mooney said:
For reproduction/repair work a lot of the time I'm not using absolute measurement at all, just cut to fit. I'm not sure that the folks who made a lot of older stuff even owned a tape measure sometimes :rofl:
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I guess the majority of stuff was made using a story board or story stick, finite dimensions are immaterial for most constructs as long as all components match with each other.

Whenever I make anything be it a piece of stand alone carpentry or a fitted unit in an existing building I use a story board.

Initial measurements for a project to asses stock available or needed are are measured in metric (millimetres, never centimetres) or Imperial (Inches and fractions) as the whim takes me, usually whichever is most convenient to remember.

After the first major component is cut all else is cut to the storyboard, that way avoids the chance of miss-measuring.

I.E. Four table legs need to be the same length, their precise length is not critical, Bookcase shelves need to fit the gap between the side frames, you don't need to know what that gap is as long as you transfer the dimension via a story board/stick.
 
Mostly I use metric with new engineered items or working with items that are already metric. If something is engineered in decimal inches, I stick with that. I haven't switched to it yet in woodworking, mostly as most of my tools are in inches/fractions, yet a lot of lumber products we get is measured in mm or cm as it's imported, but that usually only affects overall widths by fraction of an inch and can account for it in dado shims and such.

I'm not against using metric, but it wasn't what I was taught. I'm sure my grand kids will mostly use it if they are given the choice, which is probably what my grand parents once said too. ;)
 
Formative years were all imperial, then came an academic switch to Metric (MKS) followed by UK adopting the Metric (SI) (subtle difference in unit definitions etc.).

Working for some time for USAF, I found metrication of supplies had quite an impact on repair and replace.

Sheet material stock arrived under the same NSN 13 digit number as original build, but from a modern production source that was rolling to metric dimensions not AWG.
How come? NSN Stock number tolerances had been adjusted to accommodate the minor variations, presumably to accommodate best price tendering, structurally insignificant but practically a pain in something like an Aircraft Skin repair.

Likewise, Imperial Pipework modern replacements made to metric standards having subtle wall thickness differences, try marrying them up with compression fittings and sleeve couplings.
 
Chas Jones said:
Whenever I make anything be it a piece of stand alone carpentry or a fitted unit in an existing building I use a story board.
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There's an interesting book on traditional Japanese boat building (http://douglasbrooksboatbuilding.com/japanese_wooden_boatbuilding.html - he has a ton of really interesting articles and blog posts as well) from a fellow who actually did a bunch of very shortened apprenticeships with japanese boat builders.

Most of them "documented" their boat lofting with marks on the walls of their shop with much obfuscation. Essentially the building/shop was the story board, it's really very interesting.

I believe that that was a fairly common practice historically in the western world as well although we mostly moved to absolute reference measurements during the big wars. So I would suspect that you go back a ways and the measurements were all stored on sticks hung on walls and notches cut on door frames.

Somewhat supporting this is the great book "foundations of mechanical accuracy" which has some history of the first actual absolute reference gauges and in particular the gauge blocks or Johansson blocks and their importance in making interchangeable parts across multiple factories (and the manufacturing shift from factory specific go/no go gauges to a universal absolute reference).
 
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