Floating Tenon or Traditional Mortise and Tenon

Mark Patrick

Member
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108
Location
Loxahatchee,Fl
Ok, so I have gotten to a point in my shop build where it is time to consider some decisions. I want to make an outfeed/assembly table and I am kinda sick of repurposing something I have into a table to use. My last area that I built in was half of a 2 car garage so it never made sense to build something of any size to have as a permanent fixture.

New shop is 1680sqft so I have room finally to build one. Plan is to build one to last, I have been trying to decide whether to use a floating tenon or go traditional joinery..

I see plenty of people who use a domino but I don't have one nor do I plan on buyinng one and planning my early demise when the wife saw what I bought.

I am looking at the Beadlock tenons or doing traditional mortise. Which would you choose , any reasons why etc.
 
One thing I've learned is that nothing is permanent in a shop. ;) I think the choice of what to use is a personal one, and can be based on what tools you have, or plan to have. Lots of folks here would go either way, many would go with loose tenons, others enjoy the chisel work. I'm in the "whatever works" camp myself, but always a good opportunity to do something you've not done before.
 
Like Darren suggests. Do the one you would like some practice on. Since it is for the shop, you have the opportunity to practice a joint that you might hesitate on when building a project piece.
 
Traditional mortise & tenon for myself, but that's because it's what I have tooling for and no other reason.

Domino are arguably easier to lay out and register and almost certainly faster to do in most cases but I'm not setup to do them so.... I don't.

Beadlock looks somewhere in the middle, again.. not setup for it so I don't use it.

Trad has a pretty wide variation on execution. Ask three woodworkers and you'll get twelve methods, all probably valid in some cases.

I've mostly settled on drill the bulk waste and pare to a scribed line with a chisel for the mortises. Unless I'm doing a lot of a size I have a mortising bit for then I'll drag out the benchtop mortiser but for up to maybe a couple dozen doing them by hand is currently faster. I've done them just by chopping with a chisel and that also works, but the outcome depends a bit more on the quality of the wood and as some other folks have noted cheap softwood has hard rings and I've found it goes poorly for that (if I was doing quality maple or some types of oak it generally goes better.. ymmv).

For the tenons, if I'm feeling bold I'll just hand cut them.. that sometimes goes pretty well, it goes a lot better if I practice a handful of scraps first though. A lot of the time I rough cut them on the tablesaw (I don't have a tenoning jig... might use it if I did..) by using the fence to establish the shoulder offset and then wasting the bulk away. I then pare to square/size with a chisel.. or sometimes a plow plane.
 
Part of me wants to do the mortise and tenon however i have limited spare wood for the stretchers. If i screw up i can always cut it down a bit but i am thinking do i really want to do 22 joints for a large table having only done a few in the past.

I also don't have a work bench or table to work off of since all the vices were disassembled from the garage shop.

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I also don't have a work bench or table to work off of since all the vices were disassembled from the garage shop.
Yeah that would make it a lot harder... I'd be tempted to jury rig something together for a bench of sorts regardless.. but for hand chopping there is very little that warms my heart more than a big heavy bench.. and lacking that.. some of the alternatives would be somewhat more attractive.
 
I should really start a thread on my layout as well. I really love the silence of doing hand tool work but the speed and accuracy is attractive as well for floating tenons

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I use loose tenon when a project calls for M&T. Much easier to cut a lot of parts. One way to look at a loose tenon is that when you glue the loose tenon into one side of the joint, you now have a 'traditional' M&T.
 
Use whatever you're set up for and don't look back. They are equal in strength for all practical purposes, (I'm still waiting for some nimrod to do a test and claim one s better than the other because it broke at xx# sooner). I use both, but do like cutting stretchers to the needed length that loose tenons allow. But I also enjoy cutting integral tenons and mortises. I think the point Ryan made is good, lacking the bench some form of loose tenons might be the ticket.
 
Good luck with the knee. Do the PT and stretching exercises and you'll be god to go in a month.
Thanks. I am taking a full 4 months off of work since I have that benefit availible. I am young (45) but a 2 story fall, 12 years as a firefighter, and multiple years catching and coaching baseball have taken their toll. I just hope I can get back to hunting and hiking as this has all but elimenated those activities for the past 2 years.
 
Yup, do the exercises. When my wife had hers done, she didn't on the first as much. While she was under for the second one. The doctor really manipulated that first one. She woke up and had way more movement in it than she did prior, and convinced her to do more therapy on the second and it paid off. Good luck on yours, hope for a speedy and good recovery.
 
I too, have a broken body from firefighting. I now have 2 metal knees from going through a floor in a fire. I was a volunteer fireman since I was old enough, worked my way up to Captain and EMT II, and I was only 4 credit hours from becoming a paramedic. Then my day job transferred me South to near Charlotte, NC. I'm an EE by trade, so when new automated manufacturing machinery was no longer being created there, I ended up becoming the Electrical Safety Engineer for the 3.8 million sq ft research and manufacturing facility. After further downsizing, I also became the fire marshal for that facility, and wore both hats until I retired.

The Beadlock jig is a good poor man's mortise and tenon system for floating tenons and a great way to get started in mortise and tenon joinery. You don't need expensive equipment, just an electric drill and bits, and a clamp. It's fast and easy to make mortises with a Beadlock jig. The only real downside is that you need to purchase the Beadlock tenon stock, or buy their expensive router bits to allow making your own on a router table. I gave my Beadlock jig to a friend years ago, but it was a great way for me to get started.

Another friend still uses his Beadlock jig, but he now chops out the resulting Beadlock mortise to make it flat sided with square ends and he fit's his DIY floating tenon stock to the resulting mortise (I think he decided that Beadlock was charging too much for their tenon stock). The downside that I see in his method is that by chiseling, he doesn't always get his mortises the correct thickness, so he is forced to make his tenon stock a little thick and then sand or plane it thinner at assembly time, resulting in a custom fitting for each and more assembly time.

A router and a jig for making mortises is kind-of the next step in making machine cut mortises, since you can easily make flat sided floating tenon stock to fit with a table saw. Better still is to also have a planer that you can use to get the tenon stock smooth and to the exact thickness desired and closer in thickness accuracy than usually possible with just a table saw, since the fit to the sides of the mortise is what is most important for joint strength. When making tenon stock this way, make a bunch at the same time, so you can cut tenons from it as needed. The drill or router bit diameter makes the same width mortise within a few thousandths every time. Chiseling can change this dimension if using one to flatten the sides of a Beadlock mortise and make it over size. Setting up to make tenon stock takes time to get it right, so make plenty of tenon stock once you have the setup correct. It will save a lot of time in the long run.

When you make the mortises with a router they will have 1/2 rounded ends. Just make your tenons to fit the flat sides of the mortise or trim your already made tenon stock to fit the flat sides of your mortises. The unfilled 1/2 rounds at the ends of the mortise will serve as a place for the excess glue to go. The joint strength is in the quality of fit of the flat side surfaces of the mortise and tenon. They should dry fit together with some slight friction, but not require pounding to get them together. The fit will be tighter after glue is added, and very tight after the moisture in the glue swells the surfaces of both the mortise and the tenon. It takes a little practice to get the feel for what is a right fit, but you will catch on quickly.

I now went even further, after facing a job with over 1,600 mortise and tenon joints. About 16 years ago, when faced with making this project, I tried out several ways of making mortises and tenons, hoping to find something that could do it accurately, as well as easily and quickly. I settled on a Leigh FMT PRO jig. It has a dial on it for adjusting the tightness of fit of the tenon to the mortise. Once set, you can cut mortises and matching tenons all day long, and they will all fit together perfectly no matter which tenon you choose to fit in any mortise. It works that perfectly, if you do it right. I also make mortises for floating tenons with the FMT, since sometimes a floating tenon is just a better way for a given project. A benefit is that you don't need the extra length to include the tenon in the length of parts being cut. Another benefit is that you can make grouped mortises and tenons, spaced exactly right to fit together when you need a joint with exceptional strength. Up to 4 at a time can be grouped this way. A top chair back joined to the side rail of the chair would be one of these joints where exceptional strength might be desired. This jig was crazy expensive when compared with most of the other tools that I have, but it paid for itself with that one 1,600 M&T joint project. I think I would have been doing that project a month longer if I hadn't bought the FMT jig. Since then I smile every time that I use it, because it's actually fun to use.

Charley
 
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