Gardening

Leo Voisine

Member
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6,401
Location
East Freeetown, Massachusetts
As compared to some of you guys I am nothing at all - BUT - I still enjoy gardening

I tried to make a garden room on the back of my shop but I am totally NOT happy about it. I wanted it to start seeds and help me to get somewhat serious about gardening. I want FLOWERS, lots and lots of flowers. To date I have zero progress on flowers. This year I needed to go buy veggies cause my seed starting failed 100%.

So I did some research and I decided on a Planta greenhouse. It's small at 10 x 13 but I don't really need much, plus I still have my 12 x 14 garden room.

Based on customer reviews on Planta I hooked up with a local gardener in Wyoming, Rhode Island and visited them. Awesome. We sat and talked for a couple of hours. One thing she told me about was Keene Garlic. WOW, what an awesome web site dedicated to Garlic. So I am going to be planting garlic this fall.

Who else has a greenhouse?
 
Who else has a greenhouse?
We have a Planta Greenhouse. Been really happy with it, but unfortunately just didn’t have time to start the garden this year. It was a bit tedious to build, but lots of folks have built them and there is a pretty good community on FB for them. At some point I think we’ll either pour a pad with walls or built up walls from 6x6s. Mine is just using the “T” shaped ground anchors.

There was an owner that recently posted their Planta Greenhouse after a tornado in Indiana. There were recorded 130MPH winds. I think they were just using the ground anchors as I did.
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I can’t see that they lost any panels and those arches are quite strong when it’s all assembled.

This was my build thread… https://familywoodworking.org/forums/index.php?threads/new-greenhouse-project.43631/
 
I will say, we use the green house a lot in the cold months to simply get out on a sunny, but cold day and enjoy sitting in the warmth of the sun and no wind. Consider doing one big enough to use year round as an outdoor room. ;)
 
I have two greenhouses... one is a 20x60 hoop house that's basically for loml's tomato and hot pepper addiction. The other is a steel T channel unit with glass panels that's about 8x12. The glass greenhouse was bent up a little and missing a bunch of glass along the bottom from the previous owner apparently ramming it with a lawnmower into it.. but a little persuasion and some new glass and it's working quite well.

So seed starting... A greenhouse works for *some* seed starting but it's not a panacea and not IMHO perfect for all.

IMHO good seed starting requires several things, seed starting mix, potting tools, light, heat, moisture, . I'll cover what we've learned about all of those.

The seed starting mix is critical, you want a seed starting mix NOT a potting mix potting mixes are to coarse. We make our own because we start 100's (or 1000's) of plants so buying gets prohibitive.. I'm going to lay out what we use not because I think it makes sense at a smaller scale but because I think it might be useful to discuss the components.

  • 50-60% coconut coir, I like this a bit more than peat as it's more PH neutral it's basically a bulking agent and holds some water. We treat ours with cal-mag (foxfarm liquid - 2 capfuls per 10lb dry block) to neutralize any residual sodium salts in it. If you buy dry blocks the cal-mag is critical and you should hydrate it first then stir that in and let it set for a while (we've had .. problems getting ahead of ourselves on treating it).
  • 30-40% perlite, this is mostly to loosen the mix up. It doesn't hold a lot of moisture (some but not a ton).
  • 10-20% vermiculite, this is for moisture retention pretty much. It also helps hold some nutrients in suspension.

For a 10 gallon batch of the above we add:
  • 1 pint diatomaceous earth, this is mostly for bioavailable silica which makes the plants a lot sturdier. I think this would be good to add to most commercial mixes as well.
  • 1 pint micronized fish bone meal (micronized is best), this was a key element in getting significantly more robust starts, it's a very available source of phosphate without being at all hot so it doesn't burn the plants at all. Our starts have monster roots now which was something we struggled with before starting to add this. Also IMHO not a bad idea to add to commercial mixes, especially for slower/fussy starts like tomatoes and peppers really benefit from this.
  • 2 pints nutri-rich 4-3-2 granules which is basically pelletized feather meal. If you're using a commercial product you can likely skip this because it's probably already adequately fertilized.
  • 1-2 pints worm castings for micronutrients (ditto on skip for commercial products)
Avoid the temptation for hotter additives like blood meal or similar. They can be ok in moderation when potting up but it's easy to burn the baby seedlings.

As for tools ... this is mostly about trays and such. IMHO if you're getting into this investing in decent quality trays is super helpful. We use 10x20 trays and do get the "heavy duty" ones of these for sure.. the flimsy ones will bend and break if you have a tray full of plants way to easily (we buy https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/collections/trays-flats/products/1020-trays-heavy-duty also trays/inserts from bootstrapfarmer.com - no holes - by the 100 count box... 10 is a more reasonable starting number). Similarly with the inserts we've found that the cheap ones are basically use once.. maybe twice if you're careful.. three times if you don't mind them being half fallen apart, so we've gone to heavier duty ones.. Mostly we have ones made by "sunpack" which are pretty decent. For most flowers you'd want 6 cell (which fit 12/tray so 84 cells), larger stuff like melons and squash a 4 cell which fit 8 per 1020 tray (so 32). We start peppers and tomatoes in the 6 cell ones and then up-pot to a 4"widex6"deep pot once they're at second true leaves. The more robust inserts we're on year 3+ and they're all still good as new... less annoying and long term I think they pay for themselves.

For onions I made some cedar (old fence boards..) boxes about 5" deep with 1/4" mesh bottoms that just fit in the 1020 trays. I line bottom with landscape cloth and then I can plant 5 or 6 rows per box at about 1/2" spacing. These also work pretty well for flowers although it's a touch harder to pick those out (depending on the flower and how sensitive it is for root disturbance a lot are pretty hardy.. agastache and Amaranthaceae aka celosia aside..).

Light.. depending on the time of year the greenhouse might not be sufficient. For our early starts I have an indoor setup that's basically a rack that has 4 shelves and fits 4 1020 trays per shelf (so 16 trays total). Over each shelf I have 3 x 4' LED 2 bulb shop lights (6 bulbs covering the 20" depth) that are either 6500k or 6000k both seemed to work fine. I have those on a timer so they go on at 7:00AM and off at 10:00 PM. Plants like light.. this setup has helped us a lot. We started our squash (all 120+ of them) out in the greenhouse this year and they did fine.. the melons in the same place.. not so much they'd have liked more temperate temperature and also more light. Tomatoes and peppers also get a nice boost from longer light intervals. If you're trying to get an early start and have less than 10 hours of sunlight.. some supplemental light to extend the day is IMHO critical.. if you're planting after you have 10 hours of sunlight.. mostly fine.

Heat.. Greenhouses are a blessing and curse on this one. Plan for some thermal management. We've cooked more than a few things when they day got a bit hotter than expected and we didn't open the vents as much as we should have. They can get REALLY HOT even on a fairly cool day. Automatic venting would be really nice to have IMHO if the budget allows. I believe Darren has played with the wax filled cylinder vent activators? which are a no power option, I've heard mixed reviews on the longevity of some of the cheaper ones.

On the flip side some flowers and for sure peppers and tomatoes really benefit a LOT from extra bottom heat. A temperature controller and heat mat (or two.. depending on how much you're starting..) makes a huge difference. Having a heat mat easily tripled our pepper germination rates and doubled our tomatoes. We also use it for some warm soil loving flowers (look up the desired soil temperature and adjust accordingly..). There are some things it turns out this is a terrible idea for though - like melons.. do not use a heat mat for melons you'll cook the roots.. yes even on low...

Moisture is mostly watering enough.. but not to much. You want your potting mix moist but not wet, to wet and plants will damp off. If you can bottom water that's also helpful. Top watering tends to disturb the medium and also more risk of damping off. To dry is obvious ofc. We've had some luck with the tray covers to keep humidity up for things that like that.. and in some other cases we ended up with mildew and damping off.. My conclusion on those is use them early but sparingly and take them off once the seeds are up. As noted above bottom water when you can (again the decent trays are nice for this..) although sometimes you'll have to lightly water the top if it's not taking water up enough, some sort of mister is helpful for that.

Finally I'd say that seed starting is about as much art as science and specifics vary a bit depending on the plant... so keep at it I suppose.

We just filled 4 trays with 32 cells each for fall planting, it's time to start your fall cabbage right about now :) It never ends!
 
Consider doing one big enough to use year round as an outdoor room
A bit of hard floor smooth enough so you can put a couple chairs there is also nice... Concrete patio blocks/pavers work pretty well.. set them in a shallow layer of sand and sweet some sand into the cracks. A plastic weed barrier under the sand doesn't hurt anything...
 
I love the advice given and will certainly use said advice.

I have successfully started from seed a few times, but not really pretty. Basically in front of a window, but a bit better than that. Grow lights, heat mats, small heater fan designed for small greenhouse. I need a better setup that is more "workable". I also want to get better at gardening in general. I do pretty good with the raised beds I built. They are 3' x 3' x 2' I have been making compost for several years and have gotten good at that. I screen the compost.

I watch tons of youtube vids and I get better each year, but I have a long way to go.

As to ventilation, I am ordering the automatic roof vent plus the 16" power vent fan that is thermostatically controlled. I think it's perhaps a bit overkill, but based on the greenhouse I visited I think it will be a good addition. Shade cloth, venting, a propane heater or passive heating as well as a few more additions will be in the works.

The foundation is 6" of 3/4 crushed bluestone, 6x6 PT perimeter, brick floor with a thick week barrier under all the stone.

I might try some winter crop like lettuce if timing of build permits, but my goal is to be ready for spring 27

Like I said - I am REALLY small scale.

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I don't think you'll regret having whatever better temperature control you can rig up. That plus adequate lighting has been very much the main challenge we've had with the greenhouses. Definitely looking forward to seeing what you end up with.

A nice set of LEVEL shelves with good drainage (i.e. slat topped) is also super nice to have. Practically speaking I've found a few things with those..
  • The top shelves are meaningfully warmer in the winter.. I had several plants of the same type on top survive when the ones on the floor did not.
  • Lower shelves are almost useless for plants, even with glass all the way down.. The light block from the top really kills their utility.. So storage.. sure.. but figure on plants mostly being a single layer unless you have some real shade loving stuff.
  • Shelves that are not level are a super pain because you really only want a small amount of water in the 1020 (or similar trays), like maybe 1/4" so it doesn't take much where one side if flooded and the other side bone dry. It's worth spending a little extra time on that.. And then I've had the pavers settle on me as well .. which ruined all my hard leveling.. again a half inch or even less off is enough to be annoying.. so IDK.. I'm thinking I need some way to adjust/re-level easier. I've been using shims but that's not perfect.

I might try some winter crop like lettuce if timing of build permits, but my goal is to be ready for spring 27

We've done some post and pre tomato/pepper planting in the big greenhouse. The main challenge has really been light availability for that. We did some peas in there very early this year and ripped them out when the summer crops went in. Peas don't live very long anyway and we got 3+ weeks of decent harvests from them. They were very slow to start but still gave us a nice bit of an early crop before ew pulled them. We did a nice batch of lettuce last fall.. but were maybe a touch late with it and it didn't have time to grow before the light dropped to low.

We're temperate enough we do *most* of our winter crops outside. It rarely gets below the high teens/low 20's here in the winter and at those temperatures a lot of brassica survive quite well.

For early spring and fall I'm really quite fond of the various Choy's (Bok Choy, Joi Choy, Pak Choy, etc..), they grow really really fast compared to regular cabbage, are a perfect size where one or two are perfect for dinner, and since we do a lot of stir fries and similar they work really well for that. We usually succession plant them maybe 2 weeks apart starting in Feb-Mar (harvest Mar->May) and then again in Aug->Oct with a larger batch late Aug (harvest all winter..). The later fall ones survive well enough but basically stop growing once the light drops below 8-9hrs/day so you have to get them in just early enough to get their growth ahead of that.

I also tend to plant a big patch of daikon (sold as "forage radish" - which ironically I liked best over the fancier varieties go figure). It survives outdoors, low teens F, buried in snow.. The greens are excellent greens, the root is tender and sweet (for a radish anyway). We eat the root chopped and the greens saute'd or as kimchi (aka spicy korean sauerkraut..).

Having gardened in a pretty wide variety of environments from central WA/OR to coastal OR to Phx AZ, to central BC, to HI.. I can say very definitely that there is no one sized fits all solutions. So a lot of it is figuring out a) what you like and b) what does well in your area and c) where those overlap. Buying from more local seed catalogs has been really helpful in getting stuff adapted to our space (i.e. did you know some beans are day length sensitive.. yeah.. neither did I hah..). I'm also very much of the "throw it all at the wall and see what sticks" type of gardener. We've had some real stinkers that way (never.. and I mean NEVER plant bronze fennel.. pretty.. but inedible and in the wrong space absurdly invasive..), and some real winners! The winners we keep, the stinkers we do our best to ditch, and we try some more new stuff the next year! We do still grow some "underperforming" varieties because we find them extra tasty.. even if the yields are low.. in a smaller space I'd make different trade offs perhaps. IMHO the biggest bang for you space and time are the flavor enhancers like various herbs and tomatoes and things that are just way better picked perfectly ripe like melons. Bulk foods like potatoes are marginal, although if you do do those pick "special" ones like reds or golds or fingerlings (russets are still pretty cheap but fancy new potatoes or fingerlings can be $$ and are imho worth some effort..).
 
I like to try different things. Yep, some things fail. I tried container container gardens when we first could in 1978 in our apartment and failed. In 1983 I hand dug and filled with loam 2 feet deep my first garden in my yard. That garden did well until the trees got too tall and shaded it. I stopped trying to grow veggies there and just threw wildflower and butterfly garden seeds in there since about 2015. Now it's a nice butterfly garden. Wild -

I am envisioning lots of opportunities as I grow in experience. Don't know where yhis is going to go, but I excited to see it progress. I do plan on several more of my home built raised/container beds. Some are like worm farms.
 
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