Ed Thomas
Member
- Messages
- 373
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
Speaking of milling flour, it's time to swap out the stones on the 30" mill this weekend.
Gonna Be an Interesting Night
- Thread starter Vaughn McMillan
- Start date
Mike Stafford
Member
- Messages
- 1,862
- Location
- Coastal plain of North Carolina
When my father was a kid they made sorghum molasses. He always called them blackstrap molasses. I don't know why. We would make trips to the mountains in the fall for the express purpose of buying a 5 gallon can of blackstrap molasses. When we got that can home my father decanted it into 1/2 gallon bottles. Mom used it for baking among other things.
Sometimes Mom would make an extra large pan of biscuits and we kids all knew we were going to have biscuits with molasses and butter. We would mash up pats of butter in a bowl until it was blended really well. Then we would split a biscuit or two on our plate and pour the butter and molasses on top. My goodness that was some fine eating. My dad loved molasses, butter and biscuits. There are a couple of restaurants in our area where you can get molasses and biscuits.
Sometimes when Mom was in a hurry she would form her biscuit dough into a big pancake shape and fry it up in a cast iron frying pan. She called it a hoe cake. Everybody else called it pan bread. She would also make corn bread by frying it in the cast iron skillet. This was known by most as hoe cakes or Johnny cakes. We ate fried cornbread with fish, collards and other greens and with fresh all vegetable dinners in the summer. Johnny cakes were fried cornbread served at breakfast with syrup, maple syrup.
My dad's father, Pop, made pepper vinegar. He stuffed clean soft drink bottles with these little peppers he said were cayenne until he couldn't get any more in the bottle. Then he filled the bottle with apple cider vinegar. He corked those bottles and let them sit for a while. By collard season the pepper vinegar was ready for use. Some of it was mild and sometimes it was hotter'n Hades. It would make your scalp sweat. Mom would use it a base for the sauce she made to baste pork shoulder roasts with that she cooked in the oven. She added black pepper and more cayenne pepper to that sauce. That roast smelled so good while it was cooking. Have mercy!
Sometimes Mom would make an extra large pan of biscuits and we kids all knew we were going to have biscuits with molasses and butter. We would mash up pats of butter in a bowl until it was blended really well. Then we would split a biscuit or two on our plate and pour the butter and molasses on top. My goodness that was some fine eating. My dad loved molasses, butter and biscuits. There are a couple of restaurants in our area where you can get molasses and biscuits.
Sometimes when Mom was in a hurry she would form her biscuit dough into a big pancake shape and fry it up in a cast iron frying pan. She called it a hoe cake. Everybody else called it pan bread. She would also make corn bread by frying it in the cast iron skillet. This was known by most as hoe cakes or Johnny cakes. We ate fried cornbread with fish, collards and other greens and with fresh all vegetable dinners in the summer. Johnny cakes were fried cornbread served at breakfast with syrup, maple syrup.
My dad's father, Pop, made pepper vinegar. He stuffed clean soft drink bottles with these little peppers he said were cayenne until he couldn't get any more in the bottle. Then he filled the bottle with apple cider vinegar. He corked those bottles and let them sit for a while. By collard season the pepper vinegar was ready for use. Some of it was mild and sometimes it was hotter'n Hades. It would make your scalp sweat. Mom would use it a base for the sauce she made to baste pork shoulder roasts with that she cooked in the oven. She added black pepper and more cayenne pepper to that sauce. That roast smelled so good while it was cooking. Have mercy!
- Messages
- 7,729
- Location
- The Gorge Area, Oregon
Now that we’re going up need some pictures of!!!
I’m also fond of sorghum molasses and use it weekly on my biscuits but I think I go through less than a quart a year. Not sure how long a five gallon pail would last me. I don’t really cook with it though so I guess that would change it up,
- Messages
- 16,111
- Location
- Reno NV
Alright, Gonna let that simmer all afternoon.
- Messages
- 35,278
- Location
- ABQ NM
Mike, there's a lot in your last post that reminds me of my dad. Sorghum molasses, sorghum butter (I preferred honey butter), hoecakes, and Johnny cakes. Those were all things we had around the house because of him. 
A few years back I decided to make gingerbread men for Christmas. The recipe called for molasses, so I bought a jar at the local supermarket. I was eager to taste it, since it'd been decades since I'd had any. I'm guessing my taste buds have changed over the years, because I was not real impressed with the flavor. It was also a pain to pour into a measuring cup for a recipe. They weren't kidding when they came up with the term "slower than molasses".
As someone else mentioned a few days ago, this thread has gone through a lot of fun topic shifts. Who would have guessed a simple post about a pot of beans would generate 3 pages of fart jokes, memories, recipes, mills, and discussions about different types of wheat?
A few years back I decided to make gingerbread men for Christmas. The recipe called for molasses, so I bought a jar at the local supermarket. I was eager to taste it, since it'd been decades since I'd had any. I'm guessing my taste buds have changed over the years, because I was not real impressed with the flavor. It was also a pain to pour into a measuring cup for a recipe. They weren't kidding when they came up with the term "slower than molasses".
As someone else mentioned a few days ago, this thread has gone through a lot of fun topic shifts. Who would have guessed a simple post about a pot of beans would generate 3 pages of fart jokes, memories, recipes, mills, and discussions about different types of wheat?
Mike Stafford
Member
- Messages
- 1,862
- Location
- Coastal plain of North Carolina
Well, I think that is the world of woodworkers and woodturners. Every time I am around a bunch of guys and gals who work with wood the conversations cover a wide spectrum of topics and provide a lot of laughs and entertainment. I also think there is something about folks in our age group having so much in common because of the era we grew up in. I used to go to a woodturning picnic with guys who were on the same forum. We were from all parts of the country and when we got together it was like we grew up together. Such fun!Mike, there's a lot in your last post that reminds me of my dad. Sorghum molasses, sorghum butter (I preferred honey butter), hoecakes, and Johnny cakes. Those were all things we had around the house because of him.
A few years back I decided to make gingerbread men for Christmas. The recipe called for molasses, so I bought a jar at the local supermarket. I was eager to taste it, since it'd been decades since I'd had any. I'm guessing my taste buds have changed over the years, because I was not real impressed with the flavor. It was also a pain to pour into a measuring cup for a recipe. They weren't kidding when they came up with the term "slower than molasses".
As someone else mentioned a few days ago, this thread has gone through a lot of fun topic shifts. Who would have guessed a simple post about a pot of beans would generate 3 pages of fart jokes, memories, recipes, mills, and discussions about different types of wheat?
The good old days....better when shared with people who experienced them.
Ed Thomas
Member
- Messages
- 373
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
Mike Stafford
Member
- Messages
- 1,862
- Location
- Coastal plain of North Carolina
I've seen the dressing operation for grindstones many times and I am always amazed at the precision these experienced millers are able to achieve with a pneumatic chisel. Dressing correctly is so important to prevent heat buildup that will burn the corn and meal.
Ed, do you dress the stones off the mill?
Ed, do you dress the stones off the mill?
- Messages
- 7,729
- Location
- The Gorge Area, Oregon
Cool!
They have a LOT more hook to the grooves than I'd have imagined (or remember seeing on some other mills). Also looks like a two part stone with a backer? Very nice looking little mill!
Ed Thomas
Member
- Messages
- 373
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
I'm mostly self taught and used to use a hammer & chisel. That twas a long process. Nowadays I use an angle grinder with a diamond blade. It takes about 45 minutes per stone. A properly dressed stone can move a lot of cooling air.
There are 2 horizontal (600 & 800mm) and 4 vertical (400 & 3x550mm) mills. Dressing the stones in a HACCP certified facility would be a tad bit messy. Each mill has 2 sets of stone that are dressed on the dock in nicer weather. This set was readied in Sept.
The hook is from the diamond blade. Stone runs clockwise so doesn't have an effect on the milling.
- Messages
- 7,729
- Location
- The Gorge Area, Oregon
If I ever get to Toronto area again I might have to beg for a tour. There's just something I love about a stone mill... Thanks for sharing more details!
Ed Thomas
Member
- Messages
- 373
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
I don't think I mentioned that the facility is an East Indian spice shop. The 22" mills are for Spice. The other 3 mills are for Flour, mostly Sorghum, Millet, Chickpea etc. We have a long and somewhat unusual history going back to 1999.
- Messages
- 7,729
- Location
- The Gorge Area, Oregon
That's pretty cool! They must move a significant amount of spices to justify a 22" mill
That's gotta be deliciously fragrant when it's running! i've ground plenty of chick peas and fava's and peas and a bit of millet and quite a lot of corn as well as a few other things on my 4" hand mill... It's ok for small amounts of stuff. It actually does a bang up job of making split peas (or split beans) if I move the plates just close enough so they barely grab, which is kind of interesting.. I can actually split & hull some of the field peas we grew with it and use them as a dal or in soups...
Did you have to ease/open up the infeed area of the stones for larger stuff like chick peas? I pretty much have to double or triple grind them on my little mill because otherwise they don't feed well.
Mike Stafford
Member
- Messages
- 1,862
- Location
- Coastal plain of North Carolina
Most of the grist mills in our area have 4 foot diameter stones. There is one that has 41 inch stones. I asked him how he ended up with such an odd size. He said that is as large as the original miller could fit through the door. In those days they rolled the stones in to the mill room on a wheel barrow of sorts. The grooves are much larger than the ones on your stones. I have never seen a stone dressed the way you are describing. but I think I will mention to a couple of the guys I know this technique with diamond saw. I imagine it would save them a lot of time.
A great many of the millers I know use segmented stones that are banded with wide steel tires that hold the segments together. Some of mills have solid stones which are very impressive. When it is time to dress the wheels they use a rolling crane much like an engine hoist to lift the stones off the bed and roll them to the shop for dressing. These stones are quite heavy as they are 6-8 inches thick.
For something so crude in appearance I am always amazed at the precision with which the gap between the two stones can be controlled. These experienced millers can just feel the corn meal exiting the mill and determine by how warm it is and by how it feels in their hands whether to raise or lower the top stone. And every day the fine tuning has to be adjusted to account for changes in humidity etc.
A great many of the millers I know use segmented stones that are banded with wide steel tires that hold the segments together. Some of mills have solid stones which are very impressive. When it is time to dress the wheels they use a rolling crane much like an engine hoist to lift the stones off the bed and roll them to the shop for dressing. These stones are quite heavy as they are 6-8 inches thick.
For something so crude in appearance I am always amazed at the precision with which the gap between the two stones can be controlled. These experienced millers can just feel the corn meal exiting the mill and determine by how warm it is and by how it feels in their hands whether to raise or lower the top stone. And every day the fine tuning has to be adjusted to account for changes in humidity etc.
Ed Thomas
Member
- Messages
- 373
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
Not just a 22" mill, as in one of, that's 3 of 22" mills! Unfortunately some fool was playing around in the warehouse with MY STACKER and tipped a mill on it's backside so they are down to 2 of 22" mills. We had a quote of $800-1200 to have it welded (cast iron). One mill is dedicated to coriander, the other is mostly used for cumin. Deliciously fragrant would be an understatement. I've gone shopping after a day working on the mills and told I smell of barbeque.That's pretty cool! They must move a significant amount of spices to justify a 22" mill
I'll guess your hand mill has steel plates? They have a little 5hp Lamilpa mill with 6" steel burrs for some of the coarser milling.
No. A stone is dressed with "furrows" and "lands". The deep furrows are what move the material through the mill. The milling is done by the shallower grooves/cuts on the lands.
Ed Thomas
Member
- Messages
- 373
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
Surprised they wouldn't tip it on edge to get it through the door. They do have to flip it over to dress the bottom.
That stone has had all the "dressing" worn off the "lands". I have a chipping hammer that could fix that, except the stone is probably too thin as it stands so it's been retired.
The segmented stones are made with chunks of flint which IIRC originate from France. The solid stones are cast. We get those through Engsco a Dutch company who I think source them from Ethiopia. The cast solid stones are also steel banded. I've had a band break while running and it can really mess up a mill when chunks start breaking off.
Crude? The stones have to be dressed to be flat within a thousandth or so. There is only a couple of thou between the stones when running. Stones used to be dressed with a slight dish (concave) but I've found that is not necessary.
Mike Stafford
Member
- Messages
- 1,862
- Location
- Coastal plain of North Carolina
Well, you know more about this field than I will ever know. Fascinating to learn more about this subject. I only visited the industry whereas you live it. It would be fun talking to you and learning more. Never been to a spice grinding operation; that would be interesting. I have been to hundreds of different kinds of food plants but never a spice plant. Closest I ever came was a horseradish manufacturing operation. I had to wear a gas mask in there.
I don't know why they didn't tip the stones. I know the lifting device allowed them to flip the stones over in the cradle for access for sharpening.
That worn stone was just a picture of a large stone that was outside a mill. People in this area like to buy used stones and frequently use them as landscape accents or even in the center of a patio.
I think I knew that about the origin of those segmented stones. When I read what you said I believe I remember being told that by a miller once.
One of the things I enjoyed about my job was seeing and learning about some of the industries I inspected. Funny that you mentioned HACCP; it was the basis for our inspection program. Of course it was much harder for those old mills to meet current HACCP standards and many had to shut their doors.
Ed Thomas
Member
- Messages
- 373
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
I've been at this for less than 20 years. It's been a learning experience. So much of what you see on YT is just plain wrong.
In a former life I was a printing press technician ('78-'83), trained outside of Fukuyama, ran the service department for Canada. Then I owned a print shop ('83-'05). One day in Oct '99 the spice shop owner walked in my door asking for help with some flyers. Couple of years later his peanut oven burned some wiring (steam roasting wet peanuts in an electric oven), "Can you fix this?". Then he bought a horizontal mill ... I'm getting too old for this shirt.
Did you notice that your posted stone was reversed from mine? Stones are back-inclined like dust collector impellers (yes stone mills pump air). This is because, although both mills turn in the same clockwise direction, that stone is for a top running stone mill, whereas the stone I posted is from a bottom running stone mill.
HACCP is a lot of paperwork. He had to get his certification if he wanted to sell to chain stores, or export. The tracking came in handy when there was some contaminated peanuts going around "Nope, we didn't process any of those lots."
Last edited:
- Messages
- 7,729
- Location
- The Gorge Area, Oregon
Yeah, they're not exceptionally sharp.. and I've put some wear on them early by poorly adjusting them to tightly. I've thought about lightly dressing them with a tri corner file but I'm not sure on how well that will work out... I reckon I'll probably wait until they get more worn as they're still working ok. The flat on the outside part is *very* close to the original config so there's not a lot of wear (and they were never super sharp either).
It's interesting how similar and yet different the different cutters/stones are. I would imagine that the surface area of the larger stone has a lot more room for managing that whereas it all kind of has to be squeezed in on the smaller mills.
Ed Thomas
Member
- Messages
- 373
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
They don't need to be super sharp. Maybe this will show it. 'O' is the grain, '/' is the burr, '>' is the rotation. The grain is pinched/cut by the trailing edge of the burr. So, the duller edge does the work. BTW, the plates should not touch.
/>>>
O
/<<<
The 800 mm stone above has 13 'segments'. We have a 400 mm mill which has only 6 'segments'. A segment is a furrow and it's corresponding land.