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Greene and Greene drawer pulls - in process

You'll want to keep a library of G&G pulls Leo. There's at least two more of us G&G fans out here. I don't know about others but, I do my pulls with router templates and hand shaping. I'm mentally ill in that I find this enjoyable. When I am doing a couple of 9 drawers chests the reality hits pretty quick and I would be happy to send some biz your way.
 
One tool that gets a TON of use in my shop is the little PEC 4" double square. For things like setting the bit depth it is super quick, I'd have dropped the double square over the block to set the offset from the top of the block to the table, lock it, flipped it and then just pushed the bit up into the holder by the depth I just measured. It might seem like a poor mans depth gauge (and well. kind of is..) but it's a great little multi-tasker because it's nice and small for fitting into spaces like that. I use it for probably 60%+ of layout tasks at this point.

www.harryepstein.com

PEC 4" Double Square (4R) USA 8ths,16ths, 32nds, 64ths (7104-404)

USA blem - has slight blemishes in the finish - Fully hardened and tempered 4R blade. Calibrations are 8ths,16ths, 32nds, 64ths.
www.harryepstein.com www.harryepstein.com
 
Ryan, I like that depth gauge. There were a few guys at the "real" workplace that used things like that. I even designed and had fabricated some "special" depth setting tools. For me, the tape works just as well. Sometimes I use a 4" combo square. Kinda like the contractors house - nothing like the houses he builds.

The depth , or what we call "stick out" is not critical. It just needs to be there.

Glen, once I have a process, I will be advertising these on Etsy, and maybe EBAY. For sure on my web store. I really want to move away from hand shaping. I like shaping by hand also, but it's not cost effective. My resolution is to get Leos Workshop up to speed. That means I want to sell and make money doing so. I hope that does not sound too capitalistic, or selfish, or lazy or anything like that. My little business needs to make money or it's not working correctly. That is the desire of my hobby. ALSO - I want to produce something is good and desirable. That's NOT to say that hand done work is not good or desirable - in fact it is. The problem in doing it for a home based business is that is does not give a very good time to profit ratio. If I hand shape, the draw pulls may need to be priced at $75 - $100 each or more.

I like hand making stuff. I made a half hull sailboat model that is hanging on my office wall. I must have spent 100 hours on it. At $1.00 per hour that would be $100.00 Maye it would sell, but that is a waste of time, and I would be better off welcoming at Walmart. At min wage, for a highly crafted item that would be $1500 and would not sell, even at a pitiful pay rate for a skilled effort. So, I am shooting for a labor rate that is commiserate with the skill sets used to produce the item. I don't work at min wage.

I will be posting more as I develop my process.
 
OK - so I just created a 3D model of the drawer pull. About 8" long. Somewhat based on the Peart design. I cannot model the finger undercuts in Aspire. That is a limitation of the software. I Can still do the undercuts and I can still use Aspire - BUT I cannot do it all in one model. Those undercuts are REALLY easy anyway.

This preview is what it SHOULD look like coming out of the machine. I am VERY confident it will be 95 % close to this.

So, is is a little to late today. I do not play in the shop when I am tired. I feel kinda ok, but not fresh enough.

Tomorrow sounds like another video demonstrating the difference in these two processes. I will TRY to get the video posted and up on Youtube. If not, it will be on Wednesday.

I am excited about this one.

There will be a little sanding, but only around the outside where it is in easy access. The top and steps can be done with dremel and a sanding mop.

My design Drawer pull Preview.jpg
 
He sells stuff.

Freebies for Woodworkers! - Darrell Peart - Furnituremaker

furnituremaker.com furnituremaker.com

He has at the bottom of the page a way to make his Greene and Greene drawer pulls. The method uses 2D vectors to make the draw pull. I tried it. That was my first video. The is NO model, just 2D vectors.

I used the vectors to create a 3D solid model. I will then use 3D toolpath to "trace" the model to make the draw pull.

My day today 1/5/21 is a bit busy, but I will try cutting it in the afternoon. Video on maybe Wednesday.
 
Leo Voisine said:
. For me, the tape works just as well
Click to expand...

yeah both definitely work, I just like the way the double squares handle and how convenient they are to use.

I've been thinking about how to do the pulls more conventionally. The pocket in the top is clearly where the CNC has a huge advantage. Some of the other cuts seem like it's probably close to 50/50 if you gang cut them, but I think there might be some inflection points where the CNC wins or conventional wins depending on volume and some specific details.

Nevertheless it will definitely be interesting to see how you evolve the process! (y)
 
Ryan, I hope you don't think I am being arrogant in some of my replies. I'm not trying to one up or anything like that at all. I like the square also. It's a lots nicer than the tape.

I took a class in half hull modeling a few years ago. The class instructor did "some" preliminary cutting to save a little time in class, so to say the class was not 100% hand tooled. We had 2-3 tools and no more. One tool was a Nickelson Rasp. The older model that was a hand cut rasp, not the newer machine made rasp. The second tool was a gouge. Then we also used a variety of grits of sandpaper.

One really important lesson I learned is that I do not need a whole barrage of expensive tools to do some pretty fantastic results. I also like to watch a lot of youtube where people do unbelievable work with some really primitive tools. Lots of times I need to get up laughing as I think of all the money we spend on tools because we CANNOT do a job without that really high quality expensive tool. Ohhh - I sometimes wonder where we are at in our heads when some of the work done out there is with such primitive tools.

Do I "REALLY" need that Festool Domino? Well I don't have and Festool tools anyway.

My CNC machine is my pride and joy, and it is not a Nickelson rasp. Quite honestly is is also not a fancy Cammaster CNC router. I could not afford the fancy machine, so I ordered and imported a Chinese machine. I posted about it a few years ago.

I do like toys as well. As a matter of fact I ordered the square you referred to for my shop. It will be in the top right hand drawer on my CNC machine right next to the collets and collet wrenches.
 
Ryan Mooney said:
I've been thinking about how to do the pulls more conventionally. The pocket in the top is clearly where the CNC has a huge advantage. Some of the other cuts seem like it's probably close to 50/50 if you gang cut them, but I think there might be some inflection points where the CNC wins or conventional wins depending on volume and some specific details.
Click to expand...

It is never my intention to make a CNC router show up a conventional process. To me, a CNC router has absolutely no more function than a table saw, or a Stanley Baily #3 hand plane. Some people have a nice band saw and some people do not. I happen to have a CNC router. In my career I have been extremely active in CNC since 1987 on a daily basis. Not just as an operator, but purchasing, training installing, programming.

To me, a CNC router is not any different than any other tool in my shop.

I am a techie guy and I play with Techie toys.

I can make the drawer pulls in a conventional way with non-electrical tools. That is not my point here.

When you see where I am going, you may have a different perspective on the techie process.
I am not trying to duplicate a conventional process.
I am however trying to "manufacture" the drawer pulls. Weird huh?
 
Leo Voisine said:
It is never my intention to make a CNC router show up a conventional process.
Click to expand...

Yeah that wasn't my take on it either really. I do think it's interesting to contrast HOW you would do things though just as sort of a comparison of optimization techniques. In a lot of ways I'm kind of a process nerd, I find looking at how things are done to be, in general, super interesting.

I ended up pushing myself harder on getting better a lot of hand tool work simply because in some cases it ends up being more efficient I do have a pretty decent collection of machinery (although I haven't fallen off of the CNC slope.. haha you guys may eventually drag me over), and do use it for a lot of things where it makes sense. So it's very much a "process meets practical" from my perspective (unless I'm doing something just for the sake of learning or the fun of doing.. in which case practical can take a hike... but that's not what you're doing here so it's not applicable)

If I was doing only a one off of the type of pull you're doing.. I'd probably just make it with a saw and a couple chisels. That scales incredibly poorly for more than about 4 pulls though so like I noted there's some interesting inflection points here. On the other end of the scale, at some point it would be worth having some class of custom molding cutters made, but that's likely many more pieces than either of us would ever consider doing. Somewhere in the middle... the CNC looks to hit a nice effort/return point..

I think I'm probably actually pretty close to the same place you are in seeing where the mid scale manufacturing and semi-custom work niche is, it's a very intriguing space. For various personal reasons I'm certainly not looking to enter it now (or probably ever..) but it's a fun place to poke concepts around on weekends.


Edit: that was a long way of saying that my noodling on process is just that.. noodling out loud on process... because I like noodling about process :)
 
Ryan,

I am cool with all of it. I like working in my shop with wood or any other material. I like working in my shop with my #3 Stanley Baily or any other tool I have.

I get just as much thrilled when I do hand work, but I am more skilled at the techie stuff.

I don't know where this is all going, but I get excited in all of it. Even though I know what to do, I still get giddy with developing a process.

I loved doing what I did at work. Not a lot of people can say that.

I would love to sit and chat with you for hours on end about all of this stuff. It all just thrills me to death. It's a different spin on woodworking, but I just love it, all of it. I find a lot of parallels from my manufacturing engineering career. Love it - Love it.

Unfortunately I did not get any shop time at all today. I went out to Norton Ma. to pick up a plastic 55 gallon drum for my cyclone retrofit to my HF dust collection. After that I went to Walmart in Raynham Ma. for grocery shopping. When I got home about 3 Diane said that she had to go to Urgent care. She has had a lot of pain and going to bathroom. Her urologist really dropped the ball. misdiagnosed. She had a bad UTI that was going into her kidneys. Finally got home about 6. I made salad for supper and nodded off in the lazy boy with my two Poms in my lap.

Tomorrow is another day.
 
Giggle giggle giggle.

Sorry - but this is WAY too cool.

Nope not done yet but I couldn't wait to post. This is getting really good.

This time I wrote down the settings - speed, feed, chipload.

I also set up 2 cameras. One close up - one a little distant.

I shot some REALLY nice video.

I ordered and received a better web cam and a better microphone.

Right now it is 2:30. I need to go do some cooking. Really, I do need to go do some cooking. Then I need to make the bed, shower, make supper.

I will compile the video tonight or tomorrow then post it. Just posting can take well over an hour. The videos are in High Definition.

This is getting exciting.

There is some defect, but 95% is almost perfect.

I really need to tune in some settings on my machine. Constant Velocity, look ahead, angles, Acel / decel. Most likely a combo of the settings. For now I just need to slow down a LOT. That's OK. None of the settings change the process. The settings are all just for machine operating performance.

I am holding it in my grubby little hand, and looking at it really closely. I will get a few really close up stills. There is nothing that a little 220 sandpaper cannot fix. The first try needed 80 - 60 - 100 just to get the draw pull into conformance. This time, just some 220 and away we go.
 
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