I made a mess today. Yipee!!

[Tom Baugues]

I made a big mess in my garage tonight. I thought about it all winter long.....I wanted to get back to turning on my big lathe. Tonight was the night. I have no end plans for this piece other than to get used to turning again and sharpen my skills. Maybe the wood will show me what it wants to be. I have forgotten so much.
After cutting some edges off on the bandsaw I got it spinning. After a few very slow and careful cuts I started to feel more comfortable using my bowl gouge. After getting the bottom to rough shape I wanted to turn a tenon so that I could put on my Nova chuck. Here is where my memory left me as I could not remember what tool to use to get a good straight tenon edge. I stopped long enough to sit down and bring up a video on YouTube and saw a guy using a pointed scraper. I have a couple of those so I went back to work and it didn't take long before I had a catch that scared me pretty good. I decided that more education was in order before I got hurt. Not so sure about cutting a tenon with what I had was very smart.
So what should I be using to cut a clean tenon?

 

[Vaughn McMillan]

When I cut tenons for my Nova chucks, I use a scraper shaped pretty close to what you have. I don't know what the angle is, but when the face on the left-hand side of the scraper is perpendicular to the ways on the late, the right side of the scraper cuts the correct angle of dovetail for the tenon. If you had a catch, I suspect either you were trying to cut too much too quickly, or your tool rest wasn't at the right height. I set my tool rest so that the top of the scraper blade is dead on the horizontal centerline of the bowl and take light cuts at relatively high speed. (Maybe around 900 - 1000 rpm for a piece that size.)

 

[Tom Baugues]

Tool rest height is something that I’m always concerned about. Being self taught I am never really sure if I’m right or in danger. That bothers me. I watch a lot of videos but can’t always tell where others are cutting at. A 1/4” difference can be a big deal. I also was only turning at about 600 rpm. I don’t have a rpm gauge so it may have been slower than that.
Ok, so I have some things to work on.


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[Dave Hoskins]

Tom, what I use to cut tenons is a Sorby bedan. Basically it's a wide parting tool that's 5/16" wide (I think). Works well for either cutting tenons on the outside of the piece or if you need one that is inset. Of course you could take your parting tool, cut the tenon to the depth you need it to be, the remove the rest of the surrounding wood with whatever you are comfortable with.

 

[Ted Calver]

Can't tell how thick your scraper is, but if it's at least a quarter of an inch thick great. If thinner it might be a parting tool, which would work also if used on edge. If it's a scraper it should get the job done if you follow Vaughn's advise. Scrapers work best for me with a freshly ground burr, used at or a tiny bit above center line of the piece. Dry wood also makes a big difference in how easy the piece works and light cuts with sharp tools are needed. As an aside, when you haven't quite got yourself back in the saddle and are still practicing your skills it's best to bring the tail stock up and work between centers as long as you possibly can. Your face will thank you

 

[Vaughn McMillan]

I agree with Ted that thick scrapers are the best, but the one I ground especially for cutting tenons started out as round-nosed Harbor Freight scraper (part of their cheapie set) that's probably no more than 1/8" to 3/16" thick. I use it only for the final cuts on tenons, after I've hogged away most of the wood with a gouge.

And I'll second Ted's advice to keep the tailstock in place and work between centers as long as possible. On most bowls, I use a Oneway Big Bite chuck spur at the headstock, and do the entire outside of the bowl between centers.

 

[Tom Baugues]

Thanks guys for the advice. Actually I did have this between centers until I took those photos. I think I have an extra cheapo scraper that maybe I too can re-grind for this purpose. I’ll give that a try.


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[Vaughn McMillan]

Tom, I'll try to remember to post a photo of the scraper I use for cutting tenons.

 

[Tom Baugues]

I did a little more turning on it tonight. I think I can maybe get a small bowl out of this. Right now it has the potential to be about 5” across by 1-1/2” deep. I’ll back out the tail stock tomorrow night and try to finish the inside. It’s pretty hard dry wood so I’m thinking of going ahead and taking it down to final thickness. I’ll try for about 1/4” thick. Maybe less if I’m feeling brave enough.

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[Vaughn McMillan]

What kind of wood is that? It looks a lot like honey locust, which is as hard as woodpecker lips. I think you'll be fine turning it to finished dimensions from the get-go.

One bit of advice I'll offer for future bowls is to make your tenon a bit smaller diameter. If your tenon is just slightly larger than the inside dimension of your jaws when they are closed, you'll maximize the gripping ability because there will be more wood surface in contact with the jaws. This illustrates it well:

 

[Tom Baugues]

That you for that advice Vaughn. That is something that I have not heard of before.
I think this wood is from a Mulberry tree.


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[Tom Baugues]

Worked on the bowl some more tonight and have it pretty much done. Got it down to 1/4" or less wall thickness. I tried out the round carbide tool I recently made and wow it cuts like butter. Really enjoyed using it. I'm sanding it now and hope to get a finish on it soon and some final photos. Sanding the endgrain of the bowl has it's challenges.

 

[Charlie Plesums]

The large picture on post 9 suggests to me that your bowl gouge is not very sharp.

The carbide tip tools are great for beginners who don't know how to sharpen (or won't sharpen). I love using them, but I go back to traditional tools for better results in the final cuts. I plan on sharpening my bowl gouge several times over the course of a single bowl like you are making.

 

[Tom Baugues]

Charlie, you are correct about my gouge not being sharp. This is the first time I’ve used these tools in probably 6-7 years.
I would however have to disagree that carbide tools are for beginners. Although I’m using one for the first time I know of turners with many years experience who use them. Keeping HSS tools sharp is a must for clean cuts for sure. As I used my tools I laid them down in two different piles. Those that cut well and those that need sharpened. The later pile had more in it than the first, unfortunately.


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[Charlie Plesums]

...
I would however have to disagree that carbide tools are for beginners. Although I’m using one for the first time I know of turners with many years experience who use them. Keeping HSS tools sharp is a must for clean cuts for sure. ....
/QUOTE]

Oops... inadvertent insult. I learned to turn about 63 years ago (when I was about 12 years old). And I like the carbide tools, which did not exist when I was a beginner. I have not always owned a lathe, nor do I do a LOT of turning as many people here do, so I have a lot more years of experience than hours of turning, and don't consider myself an expert compared to many on the forum.

My beginner comment is based on a conversation with an instructor at Woodcraft. He said if someone was just getting started, he would encourage them to start with carbide tools, since as a beginner they would not know how often things needed to be sharpened, nor would they know how to sharpen them quickly and well.

I taught my nephew how to turn bowls, and started him with carbide tools. He was the most natural turner I have seen - in no time he was making good bowls, but he wasn't happy with the surface. I showed him how to use a bowl gouge, and he loved the result. When he got home he added HSS, and a wolverine sharpening kit to his father's carbide tools.

 

[Chuck Ellis]

I'm not trying to start a discussion on tools, but I'm not a big fan of the carbide tools myself, although I do have 3 or 4 of them... In my humble and not necessarily educated opinion, I think most of the carbides are essentially scrapers... but I have seen some phenomenal work done with them and in no way are knocking them.... my first choice for bowl turning is still a good sharp HSS bowl gouge... matter of fact my first tool to reach for is a 5/8" bowl gouge for most of my turnings... I even use it to turn the peppermills I make. I do use a roughing gouge to take a square pepper mill blank to a round cylinder in about 10 minutes, then another 20-30 minutes to drill it, and another 15 minutes or so to a final shape, ready to sand.... I turn pepper mills at about 2000 rpm.

Bowls I like to start at the low end speed about 450 (the lowest my lathe will go) until I get a round and balanced shape, then kick up to about 800 to 1000, depending on the size of the bowl... (always ready duck if it flies off the lathe..).. I do almost all of my bowls with a face plate to start and an outside tenon to hollow... not necessarily because I'm any kind of expert, just the way I learned -- I've watched a lot of guys on U-Tube and marvel at how easy they make turning look... still working to reach that level myself.

I do use a goose necked carbide (I think it's an EC1 my son gave me) to smooth and scrape the inside of bowls, especially those with a curved over lip similar to the calabash styles...and I use it in all of my hollow forms... although I also have a couple of inside scrapers, one ground as a negative rake scraper, I like to use on some bowls But with a good sharp bowl gouge I can take a fairly useless chunk of wood down to a reasonably nice bowl shape in about an hour or less, depending on the wood and the bowl shape.

 

[Tom Baugues]

In my humble and not necessarily educated opinion, I think most of the carbides are essentially scrapers...

I don't see why it makes any difference. If a tool cuts away the wood or scrapes away the wood or sands away the wood. They are all tools in making a project. How you get to the end result doesn't matter. Kind of like saying using a power saw is cheating.

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[Chuck Ellis]

I don't see why it makes any difference. If a tool cuts away the wood or scrapes away the wood or sands away the wood. They are all tools in making a project. How you get to the end result doesn't matter. Kind of like saying using a power saw is cheating.

[/U]

Agree, I wasn't putting down the tools, as I said I've seen some phenomenal work done with the carbides... my preference is the HSS gouges...
my preference and my opinion only, nothing set in stone.