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# My Dust collector sucks

#### Brent Dowell

Staff member
Or rather it doesn't, lol.

This all came out of my tablesaw cabinet yesterday.

I definitely need to upgrade my piping to a larger diameter pipe, it's just 4" and the run has too many sharp bends.

The DC is an old delta 50-850 1.5hp with a canister filter and a cyclone on it. Seems to work fine on my radial arm saw and when I hook up the planer or jointer to it.

I'm thinking I may just not be getting enough flow through the cabinet, along with too many sharp bends.

#### Vaughn McMillan

Staff member
It's clear that the coefficient of enturbulation through the proximate juxtapositioning of the swarf is contrary to the physical properties and specific gravity of the deciduous species.

It's simple, see?

#### Alan R McDaniel Jr

##### Member
It's clear that the coefficient of enturbulation through the proximate juxtapositioning of the swarf is contrary to the physical properties and specific gravity of the deciduous species.

It's simple, see?

You took the words right outta my mouth...

Alan

#### Darren Wright

Staff member
Maybe time to break out the 3d printer and focus on the source of the dust...

#### Brent Dowell

Staff member
I have to say, that really looks intriguing. That could probably help a lot.

Putting my thinking hat on now.

#### Ted Calver

##### Moderator
Staff member
That shroud should do the trick. I was able to get an old piece of semi rigid mat under my blade that acts as a 45 degree ramp toward the dust port that helped a lot too.

#### Brent Dowell

Staff member
From looking at some videos, it appears that there are some things I can do with sealing up some of the leaks around the saw to help too. I knew I had neglected cleaning that out for a while, but was shocked it was that much, lol.

##### Member
It's clear that the coefficient of enturbulation through the proximate juxtapositioning of the swarf is contrary to the physical properties and specific gravity of the deciduous species.

It's simple, see?
I temporarily lost the vision in my right eye half way through that sentence.

4" is good for hoses of short length. There are many of us who have gone through the "I'll just take this DC on wheels and turn it into something else" route. That Delta was very well reviewed in its day but, is really made to roll from machine to machine. My bagger has an AFF filter bag which made it actually useful. Still about 10' of hose is the limit before serious enturdulation starts up.

Can I say that? Please delete if inappropriate.

#### Toni Ciuraneta

##### Member
According to Bill Pentz, each bend in your pipes reduces the airflow by a % that I don't remember at this moment but it is quite significant. On the other hand he also mentions that 1,5hp dust collector equipped with a cyclone will not work efficiently enough, He mentions that for a one car garage size workshop you need at least 5hp blower.
You can check his page here, just in case. There's a lot of technical information and it takes a while to read and understand it ( at least to me) but it may give you a hint about what is happening to you. http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/

#### Keith Thomas

##### Member
I have the same problem with my 1.5 hp collector and 4 inch tubing but I am not certain the problem is flow. Mine seems to suck the fine dust down (or most of it) through the thought because I notivce a huge difference in air quality with and without the dc if I'm doing a lot of cuts. So what I think is happening is the lightest dust flows to the dust port but the heavier particles just fall down the bottom before they make it to the port. I heard 2 ways to help this problem.
I have not done either because I have not had time.
My theory is
the air flow in my saw cabinet is wrong. A larger pipe diameter and more powerful DC will not help if the air flow from the cabinet is not coming from the correct place. Other than the throat plate the there is no other vent for air to be pulled from except the louver slots in the access door. But those on the wrong side in my opinion. They really need to be opposite the dc port , up high, so air will be pulled across the falling sawdust. thats why only light dust gets out with air pulled through the throat. Much of the air is being sucked through the louvers which doesn't help because its just pulling air into the door and down to the dc port. So I was planning on blocking the louvers and putting an air port on the opposite wall. Basically cutting a 3" hole into the cabinet to start. I wand air flow down through the float and across the blade area where the dust is falling. thats why I'd start with a 3" hole.
My other idea was putting a plate with a 4" hose directly under the saw blade and have the hose in the cabinet attach to the dc port in the door with a little extra flex hose so I can open the door just enough to put the hose on and off. Then dust falls right where the dc hose is and has little choice but to get sucked out. I made a cardboard box version but it has only been used under my router table to catch falling dust when I am doing routing that covers the bit so the dust only falls and doesn't go through my fence. It actually works really well for a cardboard and tape build. Just used it and it really helps a lot. I attached a picture. maybe build one and try it in your saw.its simple and cheap being cardboard just throw it away if you don't like it lol. But I bet it will solve the problem.

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#### Brent Dowell

Staff member
I have the same problem with my 1.5 hp collector and 4 inch tubing but I am not certain the problem is flow. Mine seems to suck the fine dust down (or most of it) through the thought because I notivce a huge difference in air quality with and without the dc if I'm doing a lot of cuts. So what I think is happening is the lightest dust flows to the dust port but the heavier particles just fall down the bottom before they make it to the port. I heard 2 ways to help this problem.
I have not done either because I have not had time.
My theory is
the air flow in my saw cabinet is wrong. A larger pipe diameter and more powerful DC will not help if the air flow from the cabinet is not coming from the correct place. Other than the throat plate the there is no other vent for air to be pulled from except the louver slots in the access door. But those on the wrong side in my opinion. They really need to be opposite the dc port , up high, so air will be pulled across the falling sawdust. thats why only light dust gets out with air pulled through the throat. Much of the air is being sucked through the louvers which doesn't help because its just pulling air into the door and down to the dc port. So I was planning on blocking the louvers and putting an air port on the opposite wall. Basically cutting a 3" hole into the cabinet to start. I wand air flow down through the float and across the blade area where the dust is falling. thats why I'd start with a 3" hole.
My other idea was putting a plate with a 4" hose directly under the saw blade and have the hose in the cabinet attach to the dc port in the door with a little extra flex hose so I can open the door just enough to put the hose on and off. Then dust falls right where the dc hose is and has little choice but to get sucked out. I made a cardboard box version but it has only been used under my router table to catch falling dust when I am doing routing that covers the bit so the dust only falls and doesn't go through my fence. It actually works really well for a cardboard and tape build. Just used it and it really helps a lot. I attached a picture. maybe build one and try it in your saw.its simple and cheap being cardboard just throw it away if you don't like it lol. But I bet it will solve the problem.

I've been sort of thinking the same thing, it works fine on my planer and radial arm saw, and those get a lot more flow.

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#### Keith Thomas

##### Member
I've been sort of thinking the same thing, it works fine on my planer and radial arm saw, and those get a lot more flow.
I remember thinking that to. I had a 20" planer and the DC would pull 20 times the giant heavy chips from that than it did from the table saw. One of the reasons I think I still haven't converted my table saw yet is because (other than I don't do much wood working these days) is I do a lot of stuff with greasy lawn and garden engines and the supply of sawdust in the saw cabinet comes in handy. Because I just blow the dc outside. it isn't collected. make a collector out of a box like I did and put it in the cabinet. thats the easiest thing to do and I bet it solves 90% of the problem. I also was thinking of a slanted baffle that will lead to the DC port. If its loosely seals ( to the door can open and close) at the bottom of the DC port it will pull the air down the baffle (like a slanted piece of ply wood or something ) and right to the port. then the saw dust has to go there.

#### Brent Dowell

Staff member
I do like the idea of improving the chute. I might see about 3d printing up a solution at some point. going to have to work on cleaning up the shop first, lol.

#### Darren Wright

Staff member
I've done a basic chute on my contractors saw and it does a decent job. I need to add a couple more angles to it to direct it fully to the chute, but I usually just kick on the DC and push the build-up over to where it does pickup from time to time to clean it out.

#### Keith Thomas

##### Member
I've done a basic chute on my contractors saw and it does a decent job. I need to add a couple more angles to it to direct it fully to the chute, but I usually just kick on the DC and push the build-up over to where it does pickup from time to time to clean it out.
I think the box thing I showed you would work better. I guess sawdust will cling to the baffle / chute and get backed up which is what I think your talking about.

#### Darren Wright

Staff member
I think the box thing I showed you would work better. I guess sawdust will cling to the baffle / chute and get backed up which is what I think your talking about.
I've had one of the plastic pans that sits in the bottom of the contractor saw, but it does tend to build up around the sides. The biggest issue with any of them is the small strips of wood that drop into the blade slot, which end up blocking the ports or path of the dust. Just regular cleaning seems to be the best way to keep it clear.

#### Keith Thomas

##### Member
I've had one of the plastic pans that sits in the bottom of the contractor saw, but it does tend to build up around the sides. The biggest issue with any of them is the small strips of wood that drop into the blade slot, which end up blocking the ports or path of the dust. Just regular cleaning seems to be the best way to keep it clear.
I don't think there is a perfect solution for the table saw because of the way its set up.

#### Leo Voisine

##### Member
So just stop using the band saw - DOH

#### Ryan Mooney

##### Moderator
Staff member
I don't think there is a perfect solution for the table saw because of the way its set up.

I've seen combination overhead and underneath setups with sufficient suction that looked really quite good (my setup is .. not even close.. and this thread is giving me DC anxiety )

#### Keith Thomas

##### Member
I've seen combination overhead and underneath setups with sufficient suction that looked really quite good (my setup is .. not even close.. and this thread is giving me DC anxiety )
I have always wanted that but the ones I saw had dust collection on the blade guard. it was custom. I don't have my blade guard though. But I did just see this item. its a dust hood but I am planning on using it upside down under my router so I will have suction through the fence and under the router to catch falling dust. I think this will work under a table saw motor in the cabinet pretty well also. I didn't measure my ts motor though. I was thinking of hanging one in the cabinet using hard rive magnets and some string. 4 hard drive magnets can hold a pretty good amount of weight. use this phrase to search on ebay. "Gigantic 13 x 16 x 10" ABS Plastic Dust Hood w/ 4" OD Opening for Dust Collector"
I just bought one