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Solid wood cabinet doors and battens

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Jon Phillips

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8
Location
Los Angeles
First of all, I'm a homeowner and I am asking a hire-out question, not a DIY question. Hope that's okay. I am hiring a cabinetmaker. I want to go with solid maple slabs for the kitchen cabinet doors. My cabinetmaker uses one cabinet company and he says they no longer carry solid wood doors that have battens; they've got them without battens. My guy says they will warp and he is urging me to go with Shaker. Should I ask my cabinetmaker if he is willing to put battens on himself. I'm not sure I'm asking to much, having him modify a product. Or do I source the cabinet product from other companies and present it to my guy or ask him to source it out? I'm attached to the cabinet guy, good work and reasonably priced. He is making cabinet carcasses and ordering drawers and door. Even with battens, is the solid wood prone to warping? Not sure weather is relevant, but I am in Los Angeles.
 
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Not an expert here but I have had experience with cabinet doors warping. Many years ago I was helping my father remodel the kitchen and that included new cabinets. He had managed to buy some wide red oak boards. He thought that would save him a lot of time in making cabinet doors so he built the bases and upper cabinet frames and proceeded to rip and cut to length all of the drawer fronts and doors. The wood was beautiful.

He attached overlay hinges and handles. Everything went smoothly. The cabinets looked great. Within three or four months every single door started to warp. I guess exposure to the humidity in the kitchen as well as living in the south caused the wood to react. It got so bad that the door corners were almost hazardous. Dad was quite upset as the wood was very expensive but there was no way to fix it.

He had to remake the doors with stiles and rails and rabbeted new panels to fit inside those stiles and rails. Those cabinet doors did not warp.

I guess the tried and true method of doors with stiles and rails came about because of the problems dad had with solid wood doors. I don't know if that oak was kiln dried or air dried or green but nevertheless it warped like crazy.

I would talk to some experienced cabinet makers and see if they give you good reasons for going one way or the other.
 
Being a fellow SoCal guy I can speak directly to our environment. We will get away with stuff only dreamed of in other environs. That being said I do build for folks all over the country and find it safer to build "as if" rather than "as if it won't". I do use solid panel for very small wall cabinets, jewelry boxes, and so forth. Once you get to something like . . . say . . . 16" x 24" I move to frame and panel. You can get a very "slab" door look with frame and panel if you keep things on the same plane.

Hallway Linen Cabinet Doors (773).JPG
 

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Mike Stafford said:
Not an expert here but I have had experience with cabinet doors warping. Many years ago I was helping my father remodel the kitchen and that included new cabinets. He had managed to buy some wide red oak boards. He thought that would save him a lot of time in making cabinet doors so he built the bases and upper cabinet frames and proceeded to rip and cut to length all of the drawer fronts and doors. The wood was beautiful.

He attached overlay hinges and handles. Everything went smoothly. The cabinets looked great. Within three or four months every single door started to warp. I guess exposure to the humidity in the kitchen as well as living in the south caused the wood to react. It got so bad that the door corners were almost hazardous. Dad was quite upset as the wood was very expensive but there was no way to fix it.

He had to remake the doors with stiles and rails and rabbeted new panels to fit inside those stiles and rails. Those cabinet doors did not warp.

I guess the tried and true method of doors with stiles and rails came about because of the problems dad had with solid wood doors. I don't know if that oak was kiln dried or air dried or green but nevertheless it warped like crazy.

I would talk to some experienced cabinet makers and see if they give you good reasons for going one way or the other.
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I like this story from your life with Dad. I had a DIY Dad. Some days wise, some days otherwise. "I guess the tried and true method of doors with stiles and rails came about because of the problems dad had with solid wood doors." Lol. Not sure you meant it, but I read it like cabinetry changed because of your Dad. Thanks, very helpful. I will explore further, as suggested.
 
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glenn bradley said:
Being a fellow SoCal guy I can speak directly to our environment. We will get away with stuff only dreamed of in other environs. That being said I do build for folks all over the country and find it safer to build "as if" rather than "as if it won't". I do use solid panel for very small wall cabinets, jewelry boxes, and so forth. Once you get to something like . . . say . . . 16" x 24" I move to frame and panel. You can get a very "slab" door look with frame and panel if you keep things on the same plane.

View attachment 133088
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That is some good advice. Build "as if." I don't want to overshoot my luck in the SoCal! Those examples are beautiful. And, yes, they both look lean and flat. Door is incredible and the inlays on the dresser are to die for. I would opt for that in cabinets but would cost a pretty penny to get those built. Thank you! Let us know if this is your work.
 
Jon Phillips said:
I like this story from your life with Dad. I had a DIY Dad. Some days wise, some days otherwise. "I guess the tried and true method of doors with stiles and rails came about because of the problems dad had with solid wood doors." Lol. Not sure you meant it, but I read it like cabinetry changed because of your Dad. Thanks, very helpful.
Click to expand...
glenn bradley said:
Being a fellow SoCal guy I can speak directly to our environment. We will get away with stuff only dreamed of in other environs. That being said I do build for folks all over the country and find it safer to build "as if" rather than "as if it won't". I do use solid panel for very small wall cabinets, jewelry boxes, and so forth. Once you get to something like . . . say . . . 16" x 24" I move to frame and panel. You can get a very "slab" door look with frame and panel if you keep things on the same plane.

View attachment 133088
Click to expand...
Another question for you Glenn. I'm backing off from my attachment to the solid wood slab doors for the kitchen cabinets. I could go veneered plywood or I could go to 5 piece in solid wood (including center panels). I can also go MDF center panels, but prefer wood. I am leaning toward 5 piece in solid wood. Will that take out the warp risk? I gather that you do carpentry, more than cabinets. But, lmk what you know. Thank you. I'll ask my cabinet guy of course, but he is already pushing MDF center panels, but from the point of view that I'm wasting money paying for wood in the center.
 
Jon Phillips said:
I like this story from your life with Dad. I had a DIY Dad. Some days wise, some days otherwise. "I guess the tried and true method of doors with stiles and rails came about because of the problems dad had with solid wood doors." Lol. Not sure you meant it, but I read it like cabinetry changed because of your Dad. Thanks, very helpful. I will explore further, as suggested.
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Jon, you know I meant to say that others had similar problems and developed a solution by using smaller panels with rails and stiles. Sometimes it is hard to write accurately what you want to say. Bless his heart, my dad was a DIY kind of guy but he did not always know the best way to do things.

I think we we all learn as we go along and some mistakes that are made are expensive and some are not.
 
Jon Phillips said:
Some days wise, some days otherwise.
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What a great phrase. I'm stealing that ;) . I have some fairly large frame and panel doors that have never gone out of whack. When you say your guy is pushing MDF are these going to be painted? Is he talking about Thermofoil? In either of those cases I think MDF makes the most sense from a financial point of view. Maple frames for durability with 1/4" MDF panels seem legit as well even if painted. MDF can be heavy so things like solid MDF panel doors can be tough on hardware if it is not high quality. It comes down to preference and budget. I'm not much help in the kitchen cabinet arena. Folks who do that sort of thing for a living know a lot more about it that I do :).

P.s. I share your frustration on the limited offerings in kitchen cabinetry now-a-days. You can get anything you want but the price tag on full-custom can be a little shocking.
 
Mike Stafford said:
Jon, you know I meant to say that others had similar problems and developed a solution by using smaller panels with rails and stiles. Sometimes it is hard to write accurately what you want to say. Bless his heart, my dad was a DIY kind of guy but he did not always know the best way to do things.

I think we we all learn as we go along and some mistakes that are made are expensive and some are not.
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Yes, I figured, but enjoyed turning the phrase around in my head. Mistakes and learning, yep! I've made my share and some really made a mark, because of the expense.
 
glenn bradley said:
What a great phrase. I'm stealing that ;) . I have some fairly large frame and panel doors that have never gone out of whack. When you say your guy is pushing MDF are these going to be painted? Is he talking about Thermofoil? In either of those cases I think MDF makes the most sense from a financial point of view. Maple frames for durability with 1/4" MDF panels seem legit as well even if painted. MDF can be heavy so things like solid MDF panel doors can be tough on hardware if it is not high quality. It comes down to preference and budget. I'm not much help in the kitchen cabinet arena. Folks who do that sort of thing for a living know a lot more about it that I do :).

P.s. I share your frustration on the limited offerings in kitchen cabinetry now-a-days. You can get anything you want but the price tag on full-custom can be a little shocking.
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Yes, the price tag is shocking for anything extra. They have streamlined the cabinet industry for profit, which I understand, everything has gone up. It turns out my custom guy is much less than the kitchen design stores. We are talking 15k (my guy) vs 40k kitchen design outlet. This is for a small kitchen (solid wood 5 piece). Thanks for the comments on MDF. My consideration is MDF with maple veneer for the center panel; don't want paint, just clear coat. If I am paying for wood, I really want to see some grain. You are in So Cal doing furniture? Share a website, if you care to. I could always go ikea and save my money for beautiful furniture!
 
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