Universal G code sender question re tiling

[Rob Keeble]

Hi All some days i feel like a genius but today is not one of them in fact those days are few and far between, lol

I feel like i am back in school in math class where if you miss a step in the learning then you find you cannot go forth and understand the rest. I am hoping someone here can help me clear the path.

So i have been looking and researching probing for my machine. Why?

Well i got to cut the project i bought the machine for but for some reason which i think was my laptop either the feed of code to the grbl controller stopped or the carbide controller and its software Carbide Motion had a hiccup either way it happen twice and when it happen the router just stopped in location.

So i had to rerun the whole file. Trouble is i was using center of the workpiece as my zero point and while i got it close enough to work out on the piece of material i was using, i never figured in having to zero three times on the same piece being cut.

I got it close enough to cut and go through my already cut pieces without too much misalignment but really not close enough for the future. So i have embarked on solving the zero probing issue off a constant location like the left corner edge.

I plan on milling a piece of aluminum

And then due to carbide motions method i will rather use the UGS Universal G code program to sort it out.

Well in doing this research on UGS i found this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSV9okaHTQ0

The video has nothing to do with probing Will Winder has a good video explaining how to use UGS to do the probing.

The video shows how to cut dowels and to tile an object in UGS.

Well i can also do that in Vcarve Pro but this is where my question comes in that perhaps someone can get me over the hump with.

At around 1 minute 13 seconds into the video above Will tiles a sleigh image in UGS so one could cut dozens of these items or parts in one go direct from UGS.

For the life of me i dont see how this is possible can someone shed some light on how its done. When i look at this video i see parts which when cut will start flying around due to not having tabs or am i missing something and there is a step that i am not getting.

I get the dowel cutting bit at the beginning given you cutting the dowels into say and endgrain piece and then cut them off and release them after via say bandsawing the edge off.

But for the life of me i dont see how the sleigh gets cut out in multiples or is there a way to add tabs to a tiled item in UGS.

I know its silly to get hung up on something like this but for me its a question of whether i understand what i am seeing or not.

Only way i can see to go forward on this example is that the single item needs to have had the tabs put in at the time of drawing as if they are a detail on the actual item. Thats how i see tabs being essentially a extension of the component being cut and you have to manually cut that piece off after.

Or am i out to lunch?

Thanks for any input.

 

[Brent Dowell]

I'm not an expert on UGS, but it seems to me the gcode sender doesn't define the tabs, all it does is send the gcode for the object to the machine. I'm suspecting that the tabs were done in vcarve or whatever, or perhaps he's using some sort of vac clamping system.

As far as zeroing things out, does your machine have limit switches? I'm putting limit switches on my my machine so that I can have a true 'machine' zero in the corner, and use a probing cube for doing the workpiece zeroing.

Think about how your 3d printer always knows where 0,0,0 is by using those switches.

 

[Dan Noren]

Rob, you may want to check out the tutorial for tiling on the vectric website.

 

[Rob Keeble]

Well my machine has limit switches as standard and homes with the grbl homing command.
Yeah thats what i plan on doing for workpiece zero. Just going to use UGS to do the task.

i think u right this is what i suspected that tabs would have to be inserted at time of drawing initial object.

Thanks Brent.
on another note I think Mach 3 is a better control solution the way it displays things and the pendant thats available.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Leo Voisine]

First off - it's me. I very often don't understand the question and then give an answer that is far from the question.

I read your post a couple of times and watched the video.

There are words like "tiling" being used. Then there is UGS and VECTRIC. Then there are multiple objects. Then there is discussion of a program and process not working correctly. Then talk about zero in center of part and rezeroing.

I am confused about what you are asking?

I am pretty good with Vectric, at least I think I am. I understand making multiples of the same object. I understand Tiling, in fact just last night I recorded an example of Tiling that I am using on a project I'm working on. It will be in a Youtube video that I will be posting within 1 week.

To me - again a bit slow - it sounds like you have several concerns or questions.

Can you break that down into one or two direct questions for a simple mind like mine?

p.s. - tiling in UGS - is akin to ARRAY in Vectric, and most other software.
Tiling in Vectric is a whole nuther feature that the UGS video does not even hint about.

 

[Darren Wright]

I think what you want is what Leo mentions is Array in Vectric. You'll complete one drawing with the tabs in place, then do a copy of that using the Array tool, I wouldn't bother doing this in USG, just do it in Vectric.

BTW, Tiling in Vectric is more where you have a piece that is longer than your table. Say you can only do 24" on the table but your work is 48" long, you'd tile the work to work the first 24", then move the work down and index it at 24" to start the second Tiling operation to complete the full piece.

 

[Brent Dowell]

I'm confused why you would want to jump to mach3 when your machine seems to be working pretty well already?

Pendants do look to be pretty useful, but I'll go out on a limb again and recommend giving one of the raspberry pi control programs a shot. You could use an old wifi tablet as a control pendant and not have to be tied to a PC.

If I were you, I'd give a 30$ raspberry pi a shot before spending all the money and time to rewire you machine to use mach 3 and a pendant. I need to do some research, as I don't have the particulars on me at the moment, but there are some wireless pendants out there that are compatible with some of the gcode sending programs that could work with your current setup.

 

[Rob Keeble]

Ok so i got tiling and array mixed up. Hey i am learning two months doing this stuff forgive me for asking a stupid question.

I think i answered my own question. The UGS guy made a video that showed creating an array in UGS. What confused me is there were no tabs.
Now i get it. Do the design with tabs then make an array in UGS if you like.

Well i don't need to do that. I have already made an array in Vcarve. I just thought there was some special way i did not know and it was creating a block. Call me block head. lol

I was merely looking at UGS to use the set zero point method with the corner plate.

Brent i have no end of grief trying to connect to my Carbide Grbl based controller.
Given i have no support from them since i was excommunicated from their club, i have no way of sorting it out.
Thats not yo say it does not work. The interface is just not reliable, i have to power down , power up and fiddle each time to get Carbide Motion to connect.
So i thought perhaps UGS would be a better solution for feeding GCode to the controller however it too has issues trying to connect to the carbide controller.
Just so you know the controller is a Carbide Arduino design and runs Grbl 1.1

I have been thinking of rather going with a new controller that is proven and robust and where i can buy parts and use software like more than half the cnc industry uses that just works.
This way i get away from Carbide and whatever issues the board has.

I purchased Vcarve Pro and the beauty is it just works and has great tutorials and support. Have not needed any because it just works.

I want to use the machine not have to fiddle.

I lost comms to this board multiple times that cannot be explained.
Hence my wanting to use a repeatable zero point so i can pick up where it lost comms in the cut.

Carbide sells a probe point plate to set zero that is active not passive but they have not had any in stock for the past 3 months.

I am going to make my own.

But it wont necessarily work with the carbide motion probe feature which is designed around their active plate.

Hence my looking to use USG it has a probe feature now that is one button and you can use a simple continuity touch plate method.

So if it had worked, i could home, the rapid move, probe to set zero on corner of workpiece and run code.

back to drawing board.

Thanks for the replies my apologies for causing confusion.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Brent Dowell]

Ahhh, That makes sense if the carbide board is giving you grief and no support. I might actually be in the market for a new board when I get around to putting my machine back together. Maybe Darren can share some of his experience with his Mach 3? I seem to remember at one point there was some issues with firmware if you were wanting to use it with a laser.

There are a LOT of boards out there though and if I can't get mine working, I'll be doing some more research on which one to use. It's almost overwhelming the choices available, but I'll make sure to steer clear of Carbide, lol.

 

[Rob Keeble]

I think in the kit business Carol made the correct choice of company. Pay a bit more but you get a different beast.

If i recall correctly Carol purchased from Router Parts .com
Same place. Frank Howarth on You tube used for his setup which he recently expanded.
For me the best deal was still Leos Chinese machine. Value for money and solid and proper spindle, rails etc and mach 3 based.
Glad i now have zero dollars in my cnc and that i have had the opportunity to prove to myself i could still get into it.
Will still use it for now but i think i want stable controller and beefy motor drivers.

I think a big issue of all the low cost kits is trying to drive stepper motors with insufficient power packs as in driver transistors or mosfets.
All of that componentry costs money and it means upping the power supply ....more money and it means proper heat-sinking... more money.
So in these one board miracle cure systems they a compromise to keep cost down. Incredible what they can do but really are what they are.

Just like good woodworking , good engineering costs money.

Same for a really good plane lets consider Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen and compare to some of the others out there.

But for hobby purposes the Xcarve, Shapeoko etc kits are a good solution to get feet wet as for engineering they a great example of value engineering to a price point in my opinion.

 

[Leo Voisine]

I had a Larken 2424 Camtool prior to my Chinese machine. It is a commercially made machine in Canada. The machine was a nice robust machine and I put 2007 - 2015 on that machine.

The machine came set up with "starcam and/or LCAM" or some such thing as that. I played around with a pile of free CAM packages, and I can write my own code. The control software was a simple software than was written by Larken. Extremely limited and not at all worthy of the machine. The BOB was also designed and built by Larken, also limited.

I spend 3 years on that setup and made a decision that the machine was just not capable of doing 3D work. I tried to get it to work but it would not. I spent countless hours trying - all for naught.

At one point I wanted to take a chance, and got on the Mach forum. There was a person there that was willing to upgrade my machine for me for some barterer work. I paid for materials. He installed a CNC4PC CP-11 BOB, Mach3 and did all the configuration for me.

WOW - WOW - WOW ==== I cannot believe what a difference I saw.

The upgrade to Mach3 on my machine was FAR MORE worthwhile than the ~$500~ (I don't remember how much) Invested. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Every single post I see about Arduino, Garble, streaming, screeming, and gadgets to get it going just make my think of a really bad toothache.

I hate fiddling with a machine - I wanna make stuff. I like to hop in the car start it and drive somewhere.

Before I bought my machine I was ready to flip the switch on a CNC ROUTER PARTS machine - pro level. That is the machine that you turn on and make stuff no fiddeling. I didn't want to be building a machine. I just happened to get my cake and eat it too.

Difference tween cncrouterparts and my chinese machine is support. Other difference is, my chinese machine is built substantially stronger than cncrouterparts. That is not to say the cncrouterparts machine is not robust - it is and there are good reviews and feedback on that machine.

I fully agree with Rob on not wanting to fiddle with a machine. I don't want it either.