Preparing for Ipe furniture build

allen levine said:

Just so Rennie could get a good laugh in, I forgot when I was setting the depth of the cut on the drill press, I had to take into consideration where the starting point was above the wood. Hehehehe.....hey, its a learning experience also.

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I might chuckle at the colored party lights (coming from NJ I understand), but I would never make fun of your woodworking - I think you're doing a great job and you're turning out work at an amazing pace. Keep it up! let's see more.

I had to up a purchase recently to get the full discount on a borg 25% off freebie card, so I purchased a marples set of chisels(I really dont own any chisels less than 60 years old and dull)
Its a good thing. The mortise cuts looked clean, but to fine tune the fit, I had to use the 1/4 inch to clean out and get each tenon to sit right.

the first pic shows the joints not exact, but cleaning each one out, the joints are tight.

I still have the checkerboard that Im totally unhappy with.

I dont have enough garapa, nor do I want to use what I have(something else in mind for it), to recut it all and start all over.
I have 2 bad spots. One gap area in the center and one smaller gap on an upper piece.
Before I slice it up tomorrow, Im going to end seal everything, including the tenons, not sure if Im supposed too, but dont want to take any chances of splitting where I cut ends.
(I purchased Advantage's own end sealent)

If anyone has any suggestinos as to how to fill in the tiny gap,(besides buying a new fence or edge jointer) please post it.
Im thinking some kind of filler I can make?

Heres where I am now, and Im going to seal all end cuts and leave it sit and dry till tomorrow when Ill glue up the legs and aprons, cut up the checkboard and glue it up again.

after I give it to my son, if he says, hey dad(hes a computer geek, so hes in a fine tuning type of world) you have a bit of a gap, Ill mention its holiday time soon, maybe he should think about buying his good ole dad a decent tablesaw with a decent fence.

tenons were alot easier than I thought. I attached a piece of particle board to the fence, then raised the blade in the edge of the board, slighty , cut the first cut on all the tenons,(holding them in the miter fence) then raised it again till the desired height through the edge of the particle board, then cut all the tenons the same.
This is the system I will use to cut all the tenons on the chairs the same.
Seems simple and efficient.
The reason I built this little chess table first, to make sure cutting repetitive tenons and mortises will be easier if I do them all at once and only have to adjust the machines one time for all cuts. Practice.

allen levine said:

...(Moderators: if my amateur thread takes up too much bandwidth, please let me know, Ill stop, most of this stuff is first year for most craftsmen here)...

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Funny guy! Your "amateur" (your words, not mine) thread is not even CLOSE to taking up too much bandwidth. It's a learning experience for all of us.

Keep it coming, and keep the pics coming, too. If we run out of space, we'll just get more.

On the gap issue, maybe you could fill it with fine sawdust, then run some thin CA glue into the gap to harden it all up.

allen, try mixing some ipe sawdust with glue or epoxy and spread it into the gap, it looks very small so this should fix it. make sure it is a fine dust though

everything is looking nice. you seem to be doing just fine with your "amatuer" skills

chris

I mixed some sawdust out of my genie(my 18 y/o vac, that is my dust collection system) with some wood filler and used a spatula to blend it in.
The Ipe sawdust was yellowish brown/green, it dried very light, but I hope not as noticable as the gaps.
What I think I needed to do was to get some Walnut and use some sawdust from that, since Ipe is sort of Brazilian walnut, same shading, but its too late for this project. Ill know for the next one.
Ill be spending hours sanding it down and will cut the slices and reglue in the late morning, Ill show a pic of how it turned out.(tempted to recut it all, just go out and get some white oak or ash now)

the checkboard ending up being a disaster, but not a total loss.
I cut up the 2 inch strips, and strength tested them by giving them a good enough tug, one broke at a seam, so I guess I didnt spread glue evenly, the rest were ok.
Wasnt sure to use either gorilla or TB3, but TB3 worked on the other stuff I made with Ipe.

And when I got to the end of the cuts, 2 inch strips, the 8th strip was just a tiny, tiny bit off, but being off, and I dont know why, I measured an extra 1/2 inch, but I guess in trimming, swelling(maybe) and just the tiny gaps, it took just enough to ruin it.
I glued up another 4 slats, Ill have to do alot more glueing.
It sanded out nicely though, smooth enough before cut it into slices.
Too bad, but it sets me back alot since I cant touch the glue up till after today and Im back at work, so it will sit till monday or tues.
(im resealing my blacktop driveway this sunday, so woodworking takes a back seat after today.) too bad, it was looking good.

I gotta bo buy a few more clamps, Im just running short of long ones.

uh, its frustrating I can put together a comfortable adirondack chair or outdoor dining chair in under 3 hours, and this is well, uh.....maybe a bit too over my skill level.
Maybe I bit off a bit more than I can chew.

Forgetting the chess table, thats just gonna be alot of glue ups and hopefully, no more reglues.
This is what the chess board will look like when the other strips dry.


I just checked, at 7:30 pm, the chessboard seems to be holding together, probably because only one side is the ipe.

The aprons and the legs were a total failure.
The TB3 has been in the joints for almost 6 hours and when I released the clamp pressure again, there was zero bonding of parts other than the tenon fits nicely into the mortise.

I glued up a tabletop previously with TB3 and its been outdoors since I finished it, and the joints held fast so far.
I haven't got a clue as to why these joints arent holding, but I'd have to believe there are quite a few species of Ipe itself and this one is not going to accept wood glue.
Im glad I experimented on the small table first. If the gorilla glue doesnt hold, Ill have to redraw some plans for the chairs and make the tenons longer and thicker and secure each tenon with a SS screw. Not what I wanted, but I want the furniture to hold up.
I will not recut the pieces I cut for the first chair. It will have to be one inch less in width and depth than the other three, simply because I will be cutting the tenons longer and fatter. Time will tell, but Im pretty sure I wont have any other choice other than to use screws to secure the joints.
(I dont want to start getting into all types of epoxies, I know nothing about them and I know I could try some marine epoxies but I think Ill just go with SS screws to secure it all up)
to be quite honest, I thought all along the MT joints would be a bummer, but this refusal to accept glue, is proving to be a sizeable challenge for someone of my skill level.
I will not dump the project.

I wiped all the joints out with mineral spirits, figured any oily residue might dissapear, the gorilla glue seems to be holding firm.
I put way too much in, it foamed all over the place, had to scrape it off, will sand another time.
Joints are firm, I just dont know how well it holds up to weather. I will recut mortises next week and try the chair assembly.

went right out to the garage to see how it all dried up and held.
The joints will not come apart, I hit them with a mallet hard, a few times, they wont budge, so I know they will hold.
Problem with this gorilla glue, is the foaming out of the joint.
I tried to apply so much less, but as its clear, it comes right out.(on checkerboard, the foam came out after 20 minutes or so, bottom right side)
The sanding will probably take me as much time as the construction.
Excess foam/glue cleaned off ok with a sharp putty knife, but sanding the marks off takes time.

At least it held.

Well, despite some extra work, it looks like it's going together fine. I'll bet when it's all done, you'll be glad you went to the extra effort to make it nice. Hang in there.

Nice work so far mate.

I got the Ipe from the same place and it was lovely. Ipe is known to be terrible to use glue joints with as it's naturally oily. I had planned on using Ipe for the birdfeeders and stuff I make but the glue issue put me off.

i just ordered 3/4 ss screws.
Im going to pass one through each tenon from a less visible spot on all the weight bearing joints, mainly in the legs

While I understand that posting pics of a simple chair here, is like a high schooler showing a Yankee how far he can hit a ball, this is something totally new and challenging to me.
I had to widen and add length to every tenon, and increase each mortise as Ive mentioned. I cut up and did most of the pieces, and dry fitted it all, and I was a bit shocked. It fit close to perfect? I left a tiny tiny amount of space since I know the glue foams up.
It was actually better than I expected.
Ofcourse, I have to smooth out some bad cuts on the curve of the back,lower left support the mortise in back leg is a tiny bit off, have to add a shim or something for maybe a 16th, cant figure that one out at all, and round over every piece, and figure out exactly how I want to do the arms to the front legs, but its coming together, and I believe cutting 3 at time will save me tremendous time in the shop/garage.(seat slats will be attached to a cleat Ill put on the side supports. The back slats are cut, MT joints, just have to finish them.)
No plans, just winging it along, recording all the measurements I make for the next 3.
Really tough stuff to work with.
The chess table top wasnt so perfect.
I was going to inlay about a 1-2/16th of a piece of garapa into the ipe frame around the board, but just decided to glue a sliver of it right to the board, then glue the ipe over it.
TB for the garapa, gorilla glue for the ipe frame.
I had a few gaps, , so I made some paste with the Ipe sawdust, and used some lighter sawdust in one bad spot on the garapa. Ill see how it dries and sand it all tomorrow, this is the board in total repair stage, didnt even blow off the sawdust paste, just leaving it set overnight.
Im kinda happy it held together. My next board is out of walnut and maple, no more of this oily stuff.Sanding just knocks it all off.(another 2 hours of sanding it tomorrow)

allen levine said:

While I understand that posting pics of a simple chair here, is like a high schooler showing a Yankee how far he can hit a ball, this is something totally new and challenging to me.

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Not so! You've shown a good deal of skill dealing with some difficult stuff! It took me about 2 weeks to build my first Adirondack chair - from redwood, with full sized plans!I'd shy away from Ipe but you jumped right in. Go get 'em!

The first chair is done, rounded over all the edges of every piece, and the only small error I have is that where I wanted the arms to attach by either bolt or screw to back legs, there is a gap between arm and leg. Cant figure it out, something I did in measurements, but everything else fit nice.
Wont glue it up till I get my SS screws so I wont have to glue and clamp every piece. Just needs a light sanding, very slight tearout of a couple of spots after routing.

The chess table, again, its a disaster.
I lifted the base this morning, after a week, one leg came apart off aprons.
Seems even gorilla glue is failing, cant figure out why the other joints are solid and strong.
After it sets again, I will pass a screw in diagonally into tenons on apron for extra support.
The table top had its bad spots.
Mainly in the 45 Degree corners. I usually sand and cut each one till I got it near perfect, but this stuff makes me cringe with these perfect angles.
I showed my wife, she told me Im nuts, to leave it alone, hes going to love it.

Ill splurge and buy him a 2.99 plastic chess and checkers set.

ofcourse, a few more pics to show my errors. Chairs will have a nice dark glow after I put on the treatment, and Ill puchase nice green or blue seat cushions.I know the chair is simple, but since its my first build with MT joinery, and the wood is4 times as heavy as oak, I wanted to keep the chairs light as possible.

Hey Allen - looks like you're having some problems but you're overcoming them and things are coming out better than expected. Checkerboards are tough. My first one went in the trash but I learned from it and the second one came out really nice. Hang in there!

its difficult to align a joint that has to be reglued over and over.
At least Im getting practice in pulling splinters, cause this stuff gives ya plenty of them.
(as much as Id like to recut and just start fresh, I estimated the wood pile, and Im running around even for the rest of the build, so I wont waste any pieces on the chess table.)

Rennie, I cant throw any of this stuff away, the sanitation crews would hunt me down.

I weighed out the difference between rebuilding it, ordering and paying for more wood, or a couple of slightly off edges.
I figured its outdoors, its going to be covered with debris soon enough, using it to hold beer cans and frozen margaritas, sandwiches, and chips, whos going to notice? Its going to get sprayed down with some glass cleaner every time someone wants to actually use it for checkers or chess, so its going to take alot of abuse, not to mention snow, rain, sunshine, etc.......
At least he can say, hey, Im the first one on my block to have a chess board made out of ipe and garapa.(maybe the only one in the northeast for that matter)And I dont feel as bad the first brazilian indian who found this tree and built his canoe out of it, and when he went to launch his beautifully carved boat, it sunk right to the bottom. I figure he kinda felt a little worse than me.

allen levine said:

While I understand that posting pics of a simple chair here, is like a high schooler showing a Yankee how far he can hit a ball...

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Ya know, every once in a while that high schooler might hit one over the fence...even against the Yankees.

The chair is looking real good, Allen. More ambitious than any flatwork I've done.

One possible fix for the chess board corners would be to cut a saw kerf following your 45º miter cuts (essentially enlarging the gap that's there now), then fill the gap with a slice of contrasting wood. You could turn the error into a feature.

allen levine said:

I dont feel as bad the first brazilian indian who found this tree and built his canoe out of it, and when he went to launch his beautifully carved boat, it sunk right to the bottom. I figure he kinda felt a little worse than me.

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that's the spirit!