Purchasing an acreage?

Art Mulder said:

Wes, from your photo the other question that pops up is that long driveway to the south of the property. It's a pretty big lot back there, and I would want to find out from the city planning department (or whoever is in charge) if there was any possibility of that being turned into a road someday for someone to plop a subdivision back there. To me, that would be a huge negative down the line. Now if you're very rural, maybe this is not even a remote possibility. All I have to go on is that satellite photo.

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Art, good point on that long drive. I'll call the county to see if there is any possibility of developing the land behind this one. Right now it's a private drive but if there were 50 homes back there and they shared the same driveway it'd be a whole lot more busy and it run's along 1000' of the property.

Thanks,
Wes

Wes Billups said:

Thanks for all the feedback. I probably should have included some more detail in my first post. The land is a 5 acre plot. It’s already been approved for a leach septic system and building site by the county health department. The current owners planned on building but their circumstances have changed and thus they are trying to sell. The thing that my wife and I really like about it is there is a stand of about 1.5 acres of large trees on the back of the property. This area’s too low to build on but would be a great place for the kids to play when they get older and also shield us should a development pop up in the field behind.

Here’s a satellite image of the land with it’s lot lines. This image is from 2006. There is now a home on the property just above (north) of the one we’re looking at. To me this is a positive as we now know what kind of properties will be around us. There are also quite a few young trees in the middle we would plan on getting moved near the road.

Based on everyone’s input here I think we’re going to make an offer. I’ve heard a complete well system around here will run $4000. Anybody have ideas what an overhead power line would cost to the barn which is approx. 150’ from the road. I’d also be interested to hear what a leach type septic system costs. I’ve told my wife to expect to pay $20-25,000 for all the utilities (water, sewer, and electric).

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Wes,
I would not go with the leach type septic but rather an Aerobic septic system. Based on the number of bedrooms is how they size it here in our area, and sprinkler heads are used to distribute the "treated" water. The sprinkler heads can be located in the back part of the lot to water the trees.

We have an aerobic system and a leach system on our place, reason being, the garage was converted to a master BR some ten years ago with a leach septic for the master bath. When it is time for that system to be replaced we will connect the lines to the new Aerobic system. Easier to maintain and no worries about having to ever dig up clogged leach lines.

Ted

Water and sewer installations around here are handled the same as in Jim's area. We were looking at a house, and then some property on a road with a new water line. The final cost's weren't out but it was going to be in the neighborhood of $25K.

We moved to a relatively large 10 acre plot almost 5 years ago now. We are about 9 miles out of the City of Toledo and about 6 miles from "town" which is where my daughter's school is. Our road is a dirt road and about 1/2 the houses are older on varying size lots and about 1/2 are newer on 10+ acre lots. The block we are on is pretty much built out based on the minimum frontage required.

There are a lot of nice things about living out here and overall I really like it but there are some disadvantages. First that comes to mind since I'm using it is Internet. Our phone lines in the area are so old and we are so far out from the swtich that DSL is impossible. The engineer I worked with at the cable company said it would cost them about $30K to build out to me an because of the sparse population they couldn't get payback. So that leaves alternative technologies like satellite (had it, and it was just OK), cellular (which we have now, but has some pretty significant limits on total data transfer), or wireless which I'm looking into. All are pretty expensive and its a big deal to me since I work from home. Its also a 15min drive to any stores. It takes me at least an hour just to run out for lunch. There are two pizza places that will deliver, but the good one won't because it is too far. The size of the property scales everything too. Mowing my lawn (about 2-3 acres) takes 2-3 hours with a tractor that cost more than my wife's new car which we had to have to deal with snow removal and bush-hogging the back. When I want to kill the weeds in the driveway, it costs $30 for enough generic Roundup concentrate to spray it. We haul three trailer loads of mulch just to replenish what breaks down every year.

On the other hand our taxes are under $2K. Its quiet. No one has ever complained about anything I've done. I have a huge shop and could put up another building if I wanted (actually I want, I just can't afford ). Our school district is small and well regarded.

Matt Meiser said:

Water and sewer installations around here are handled the same as in Jim's area. ...We moved to a relatively large 10 acre plot almost 5 years ago now. ...The block we are on is pretty much built out based on the minimum frontage required.

There are a lot of nice things about living out here and overall I really like it but there are some disadvantages. First that comes to mind since I'm using it is Internet. Our phone lines in the area are so old and we are so far out from the swtich that DSL is impossible....Its also a 15min drive to any stores. It takes me at least an hour just to run out for lunch. There are two pizza places that will deliver, but the good one won't because it is too far. The size of the property scales everything too. Mowing my lawn (about 2-3 acres) takes 2-3 hours with a tractor that cost more than my wife's new car which we had to have to deal with snow removal and bush-hogging the back. When I want to kill the weeds in the driveway, it costs $30 for enough generic Roundup concentrate to spray it. We haul three trailer loads of mulch just to replenish what breaks down every year.

On the other hand our taxes are under $2K. Its quiet. No one has ever complained about anything I've done. I have a huge shop and could put up another building if I wanted (actually I want, I just can't afford ). Our school district is small and well regarded.

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Pretty much all the above fits my scenario, too, Matt. My lot is a bit smaller (I mow 1½ acres) so I have a smaller (cheaper) tractor, and I have Cable Internet. Oh yeah, and my taxes are a bit more than $2K (but still well under $3K), but everything else pretty much fits.

We do enjoy being out of the city (and its limitations).

Matt Meiser said:

Water and sewer installations around here are handled the same as in Jim's area. We were looking at a house, and then some property on a road with a new water line. The final cost's weren't out but it was going to be in the neighborhood of $25K.

We moved to a relatively large 10 acre plot almost 5 years ago now. We are about 9 miles out of the City of Toledo and about 6 miles from "town" which is where my daughter's school is. Our road is a dirt road and about 1/2 the houses are older on varying size lots and about 1/2 are newer on 10+ acre lots. The block we are on is pretty much built out based on the minimum frontage required.

There are a lot of nice things about living out here and overall I really like it but there are some disadvantages. First that comes to mind since I'm using it is Internet. Our phone lines in the area are so old and we are so far out from the swtich that DSL is impossible. The engineer I worked with at the cable company said it would cost them about $30K to build out to me an because of the sparse population they couldn't get payback. So that leaves alternative technologies like satellite (had it, and it was just OK), cellular (which we have now, but has some pretty significant limits on total data transfer), or wireless which I'm looking into. All are pretty expensive and its a big deal to me since I work from home. Its also a 15min drive to any stores. It takes me at least an hour just to run out for lunch. There are two pizza places that will deliver, but the good one won't because it is too far. The size of the property scales everything too. Mowing my lawn (about 2-3 acres) takes 2-3 hours with a tractor that cost more than my wife's new car which we had to have to deal with snow removal and bush-hogging the back. When I want to kill the weeds in the driveway, it costs $30 for enough generic Roundup concentrate to spray it. We haul three trailer loads of mulch just to replenish what breaks down every year.

On the other hand our taxes are under $2K. Its quiet. No one has ever complained about anything I've done. I have a huge shop and could put up another building if I wanted (actually I want, I just can't afford ). Our school district is small and well regarded.

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10 acres and taxes under 2 K, wow. That is incredible.

Yeah, they would probably be a bit higher but we bought the house from the original owners in 2003. They built it in 1991. Michigan limits the rate at which taxes can increase year to year but the cap is removed for 1 year when the house sells or I believe when significant improvements are made and the township can raise them if they want. Fortunately for us, our township missed the window. They now go up by the limit every year but I'm not complaining.

Matt Meiser said:

Yeah, they would probably be a bit higher but we bought the house from the original owners in 2003. They built it in 1991. Michigan limits the rate at which taxes can increase year to year but the cap is removed for 1 year when the house sells or I believe when significant improvements are made and the township can raise them if they want. Fortunately for us, our township missed the window. They now go up by the limit every year but I'm not complaining.

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Hey Matt,
What you can do for weed control, especially along the fence line, is take the brine water when your water system backflushes (if you have a treated water system like we have), and use that. Just have it collect in a sprayer tank for when you want to use it. It won't work as fast as roundup does but it'll work.
Ted

allen levine said:

10 acres and taxes under 2 K, wow. That is incredible.

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2100 square foot home, detached shop and 3½ acres...$871 dollars per year

5200 square foot home, 1500 square foot home, undeveloped 4 acre house lot (with well and septic), plus a sawmill and 900 square foot outbuilding...$3400 per year. (The farm is split over two town lines and I have yet to get the other tax bill from that town, but its similar to this taxes per acre) ($10 per acre)

Now I could get more off my taxes if I went with the State Tree Growth Program, which would take 60% of the property taxes off the woodland. That would limit what I could do with my woodlot though, so thus far I have not taken advantage of that. I do get a cut rate for open land, (pasture) and farm land (tillable crops) and of course the homestead exception, but hey everyone out in the country gets that. The point here is, if you live in the country and do the right thing (farm) you can get some tax breaks. Of course since only 1% of this nation is feeding the other 99%, I figure that is only fair.

But we do pay for it in other ways. My commute is 84 miles per day and everyone of my neighbors works in the same town as me. A 24 hour store is 20 miles away. A walmart is 30. A Home Depot is an hours drive. We don't get cable here, but it comes on spools and we use it on our skidders. Satellite is nice, but delivered pizza is non-existent. A plowed road in a snowstorm is a luxury, and it might be weeks before we see pavement after snow starts falling.

All in all, the taxes are nice, but no one stays here. Its a trend that has been going on for decades. Some people will move in, brag up the cheap taxes and available land (the average homeowner here owns 80 acres or more), and then slowly realize that life here is tough. The snow, the cold, working for just above minimal wage, and replacing your car every two years, etc. As far as I can tell it takes about 8 years for people to decide to move on.

It should come as no surprise that most young people move away and Maine has the highest elderly population in the nation...and the work force in the nation too. We pay the highest overall taxes in the nation (low property taxes but every other tax is levied on us) and 35% of my neighbors live below the poverty line.

And my take on all this...I have lived at 930 East Thorndike Road, and 945 East Thorndike Road, (400 feet apart) so its just plain home no matter what the demographics are like. Buildings, acreage and livestock mean very little. One good fire or disease breakout and you have nothing anyway, so home is indeed where the heart is. A good weekend for me is arriving here on Thursday Night and not leaving until Monday morning. When you get a place like that, its truly home, no matter what surrounds you. If where you are living is like that now, then don't move, but if it's not, then by all means buy it and make it into a place you never want to leave.

My .02 cents...

Travis Johnson said:

.....When you get a place like that, its truly home, no matter what surrounds you. If where you are living is like that now, then don't move, but if it's not, then by all means buy it and make it into a place you never want to leave.

My .02 cents...

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That's some good sound advice for only two cents worth!
How old do ya gotta be to be that wise?

Ted

I am 34 years old, but advice like that comes from 34 years of farming, and being around a lot of older people.

I wrote this letter to a friend that retired from logging and was feeling glum about selling his farm to some outsiders. I think from it you can see that character is planted on the farm right along with corn and grass seed.

Dear Larry,

Just thought I would send you a card congratulating you on your recent retirement from farming. I certainly know you deserve it, and have worked hard to reach this point in your life, and I hope that you and Linda can enjoy time together without the pressures of farm life.

I also wanted to thank you for your loyal years of maintaining my family farm. I know you were friends with my Grandfather and you always managed our farm as if it was your own land and not merely rented fields. I will always be thankful for that and feel truly blessed that you were able to maintain it after Jack Edgerly got out of potatoes.

Growing up in Thorndike had its benefits, but the greatest benefit of all was growing up with farmers like yourself. For years I sat on your tractor fender and rode around the fields with you and watched you work, listened to your stories and saw you fix things. Through it all I learned, and have a lot of respect for the land, for people and for the very animals that made up your livelihood because of farmers like you.

My Grandfather never lived long enough to see me build my own house, get married or have my own children, but I think he would have been proud of what I have accomplished. I could have never accomplished those things without you, Steven Fowler, Francis Wren, Rodger Wingate and Jack Edgerly instilling in me something that is simply called character. You lead by example Larry, and it never escaped me even if I was just a kid sitting on your tractor’s fender as you tilled our fields.

You will always have my deepest respect.

Best of luck in your retirement. You certainly deserve it.

Sincerely,
Travis S Johnson