A few small gaps to fill

Rennie Heuer

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I place this before the learned and experienced minds of the family. I need your guidance.:bow:

I'm working on the chancel furniture and part of it requires a plywood platform edged in oak 2.5" wide. Although I really took my time with these miters, I still have a few gaps that I have to fill. I've not had much success with some of the commercial fillers, so I was wondering what you used. I've tried the plastic wood, don't like it. The Elmer's is a bit better, but still not great. I have some Timbermate, works OK. Any suggestions? Any brands that work well? Mix your own?:dunno::confused:

Here's the joints. The gaps are small (and I have a little tear out in the plywood to deal with too. The magnification makes them look larger than life. Remember that the width of the border is 2.5"
DSC_3006.jpg DSC_3007.jpg DSC_3008.jpg
 
One option I've used is to mix some sanding dust with whatever wood glue you're using and apply that as a filler.

Another thing I've done (and you have to be real careful) is to apply a tiny line of glue to the gap and then use your ROS to sand over the areas.

I'd rather use one of the procedures I described than any commercial filler.

I've also used Famowood, when available. In some cases, I've reduced it with water and applied it to a gap with a syringe.
 
Rennie, I have never really been very pleased with my results from fillers, so I can't be much help there. Since you have already glued it up, this won't help, but what I have done to alleviate the need for fillers (because of my poor results with them), I dry fit all the edging pieces by starting with the middle piece and working the joints outward from that piece, by using a long sanding block attached to my TS fence and then with the aid of the mitre guage to help hold the piece steady slide the piece back & forth on the TS table with the ends of the joint against the sanding block until I get a perfect fit, then move to the next joint and cut it just slightly long and repeat the sanding/fitting process, etc until I have worked all the way around, and when I'm, satisfied with the joints, I glue it up, (starting with the middle piece and usually gluing only one or maybe two joints at a time). It really doesn't take much longer to do it this way and has really improved the results for me.
 
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saw dust(from sanding) mixed with clear shellac seems to work good for me. I need be after that you can use a pencil to fake the grain.
 
I've never had luck getting anything to look right except more of the same wood. That's a bit trickier for you since you've got some grain lines that may be tough to match up unless you've got the offcuts from mitering those pieces but taking a thick handplane shaving or two and tucking them into the cracks usually results in a darn near invisible filler.
 
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saw dust(from sanding) mixed with clear shellac seems to work good for me. I need be after that you can use a pencil to fake the grain.

That't what I use, too. It works well if you're using a clear finish. I've never really had good results with anything if I was staining after filling.

As for using the glue/sawdust, I've NEVER had good results with that. It shows regardless of whatever finish you use - except maybe paint!
 
So many differing opinions!

OK - one by one

One option I've used is to mix some sanding dust with whatever wood glue you're using and apply that as a filler.

I've heard of this and the proponents of the system swear by it. Others, see below, don't speak too highly of the process at all!:huh: It's worth giving it a try just to see what happens.:dunno:

I dry fit all the edging pieces by starting with the middle piece and working the joints outward from that piece, by using a long sanding block attached to my TS fence and then with the aid of the mitre guage to help hold the piece steady slide the piece back & forth on the TS table with the ends of the joint against the sanding block until I get a perfect fit, then move to the next joint and cut it just slightly long and repeat the sanding/fitting process, etc until I have worked all the way around, and when I'm, satisfied with the joints, I glue it up, (starting with the middle piece and usually gluing only one or maybe two joints at a time). It really doesn't take much longer to do it this way and has really improved the results for me.

This is pretty much what I did, except for the sand paper part. The hurdle, as I see it, is that each piece has to match three edges, not the usual two as in most miters. I have been able to get two to close up, but the third always seems to be just a hair off. The up side? I have several more to build so I'll get more practice!:rofl:

saw dust(from sanding) mixed with clear shellac seems to work good for me. I need be after that you can use a pencil to fake the grain.

I'm going to try this right after my glue test. Thanks!:thumb:

I've never had luck getting anything to look right except more of the same wood. That's a bit trickier for you since you've got some grain lines that may be tough to match up unless you've got the offcuts from mitering those pieces but taking a thick handplane shaving or two and tucking them into the cracks usually results in a darn near invisible filler.

The gaps are sooooo small They look bigger in the pictures) that wedging anything in there might be very, very difficult. But, that's technique I'm going to file away for future reference,:D

That't what I use, too. It works well if you're using a clear finish. I've never really had good results with anything if I was staining after filling.

As for using the glue/sawdust, I've NEVER had good results with that. It shows regardless of whatever finish you use - except maybe paint!
Another vote for the shellac! Thanks Jim. Like I told Doug, that's the next try on my agenda!

How great to have all this experience at my finger tips!:D
 
If you intend to use a BOL treatment then apply your BOL and then sand with 220 while it's still wet. That will create a slurry and fills in the imperfections nicely. Wipe it down carefully after the BOL has had a while to soak in being careful to not pull all the dust slurry out. Works well for all those little imperfections that always seem to show up.

Mike
 
Test 1 - glue and sawdust

OK - Here's a pointer should you ever get a dummy like me asking this question again. Don't use a metal putty knife to put a glue and white oak paste into the fine gaps of a miter.:eek: I should have known better - tannins and all that. Please note the dark line where the two pieces meet. Yes it filled nicely, but the mixture turned black as I was working it in.:rofl:
DSC_3019.jpg

So, back to the mixing, this time with a plastic knife at the ready. After mixing this batch up it occurred to me that I don't remember anyone hinting at the viscosity of the mix.:huh: Well, I can tell you it can't be a dry mix!:rofl: I tried another area and I could hardly force it into the cracks. In fact, most never made it and it's obvious in the "after" shots.
DSC_3020.jpg

Don't know if I'll get more time this evening to try again, but I'm on it tomorrow for sure.
 
If you intend to use a BOL treatment then apply your BOL and then sand with 220 while it's still wet. That will create a slurry and fills in the imperfections nicely. Wipe it down carefully after the BOL has had a while to soak in being careful to not pull all the dust slurry out. Works well for all those little imperfections that always seem to show up.

Mike
Unfortunately, I'm handing this over to the customer sanded to 220, ready for a finish. They wanted to handle this part because they were worried about matching their current furniture. I've not seen what they have, but they did note that they would have to stain the pieces. I see this could cause,..... issues.:(
 
... I tried another area and I could hardly force it into the cracks. In fact, most never made it and it's obvious in the "after" shots.
...

There's glue in them thar gaps. The plane shaving method works even better on long grain like your test pic gaps but you sometimes need to trace the gap with an exacto knife first to deepen it a bit if it's filled with glue. The only reason cross grain gaps are harder is that the endgrain shavings tend to crumble a bit working with them. Plus you need to match the grain a bit closer. You wont be able to tell where you did one of the long grain gap shavings.
 
I've done the shellac and dust mixture, you do have to have it fairly runny. I use sawdust from the orbital sander. I've also used hardwood floor filler, it's water-based and takes stain well. I think I picked it up at the orange borg.

Good Luck
 
I've seen and used an old school trick i really like.
Clean out your random orbital sander's dust collection container.
put some 150 ro 220 grit paper on the disk and give the top another pass.
Then, collect the dust, add it to a bit of shellac until you have some goo the consistancy of peanut butter. Fill in the cracks.
This ensures a spot on color match, and it dries quickly.
Once it's set up, sand it down smooth and apply your finish.
Hope this is useful - i've had good luck with it the 3 times i've tried it.
Paul Hubbman
 
I've seen and used an old school trick i really like.
Clean out your random orbital sander's dust collection container.
put some 150 ro 220 grit paper on the disk and give the top another pass.
Then, collect the dust, add it to a bit of shellac until you have some goo the consistancy of peanut butter. Fill in the cracks.
This ensures a spot on color match, and it dries quickly.
Once it's set up, sand it down smooth and apply your finish.
Hope this is useful - i've had good luck with it the 3 times i've tried it.
Paul Hubbman
Thanks Paul - this method is on my list of "try this" tonight!
 
No pics - sorry - maybe later - but the shellac mix seems to have worked well. I use a 2# cut of dewaxed shellac and some 220 dust from the ros - mixed to the consistency of peanut butter.

I like it!:thumb:

Thanks guys!
 
No pics - sorry - maybe later - but the shellac mix seems to have worked well. I use a 2# cut of dewaxed shellac and some 220 dust from the ros - mixed to the consistency of peanut butter.

I like it!:thumb:

Thanks guys!

How did you resolve the issue of your client trying to stain over your "fix"? Do you believe that the shellac will only be in the gap and not the adjourning wood surfaces after sanding?
 
How did you resolve the issue of your client trying to stain over your "fix"? Do you believe that the shellac will only be in the gap and not the adjourning wood surfaces after sanding?
Ahhh yes. I have meetings tonight and tomorow, but by Thursday evening I'll run a few tests in that area. I think I'll start with some MS and see if there is any sign of problems. If I see nothing there, I'll try the process on some scrap and then use some stain. I'll report on my findings by the weekend.
 
How did you resolve the issue of your client trying to stain over your "fix"? Do you believe that the shellac will only be in the gap and not the adjourning wood surfaces after sanding?

What about putting a sealer coat of shellac - like Zinnzer SealCoat® - on the whole project before delivery. Then, the client can have a consistent surface to work on It'll still take stain, particularly if they use a gel stain, and should finish up really well.
 
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