Bandsaw review (Steel City 18in)

Brent Grooms

Member
Messages
46
Well, I got power over the last weekend and finished assembly and tuning last night so I figured I could share my observations.

Overall, I am very pleased with this purchase. It should do everything I can concieve of needing to do at this moment. Very robust and sturdy design. It is not a Mini-Max or Laguna etc. but I don't think it was intended to be. I would like to have access to the Grizzly/ Rikon/ Jet and Delta offerings of this size to make further comparisons. (if you have one and would like to have hands on access as well, give me a shout)

Assembly was very straight forward, there are a couple of details that could have been mentioned in the manual. (had I taken pictures/paid more attention at the show it would have helped) Specifically the orientation of the angle iron for the rear fence support and that the "goo" on the trunion mounts for the table was actually assembly grease (to save you from having to do it when installing the table). Actually, assembly consists of... uncrate everything, install the table, install the fence and rails and go thru set-up adjustments.

I did find two things that are annoying and will be calling after the holiday about... 1. blade clearance insert. This has to be modified (at least on the one shipped with mine) to clear the blade.
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Thankfully, I put it in and was turning the wheels by hand and heard the set of the teeth making contact with it before I started it.

The next I didn't notice until I had been running it for a while and smelled something like a burnt belt. I opened the lower cabinet and saw some black 'soot' at the bottom... did some checking and found the culprit...
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The wheel brush was smashed down against the tire. I broke out the wrenches to adjust it... one slight problem... it was already adjusted to the limit. For the time being I am going to live with it but it will be mentioned.

One more review, comment... I ordered a number of blades from suffolk (timberwolf) I installed one of the 1in blades (ordered 2 one of them as a spare)that I ordered. Setup as instructed (flutter test etc...) and the first 1in blade that I tried I could not get to settle down and run smooth. I was cranking on the tension to the point of hearing the motor change pitch. Backed off the tension some, shut it down switched blades and this one had no issue fluttering and getting back to stabil. I can still hear the weld as it hits the tires but it isnt nearly like the first blade. I am assuming there is a bad weld on the first blade that I tried resulting in unstability and noise? If this is the case... might suggest ordering in pairs in the future...

I still have a lot of learning to do with bandsaws and this bandsaw but with anything... it takes time. I have no doubt that this was the right decision for me at this point. Some minor annoyances but I am assuming that I would have critisizms of any bandsaw that I purchased.
 
I'm sure it is a great saw. There are always adjustment glitches with any new gadget. Have you tried facing the opening of the insert to the rear? If that doesn't work you might just have to hog out the opening a little more.
 
Brent. Is there any room for adjustment in how the table bolts on? I'm wondering if you've got a way to move the table so that the insert slot is centered on the blade. Course that would mean the lower bearings would have to be adjustable in that same direction too, but I'm wondering if that's causing the problem. As far as the brush goes, is the bracket leg that bolts to the saw slotted as well (which would raise it) or just the leg for the brush attachment?
 
Hey Brent. I'm no bandsaw genius, but I noticed something in your first picture that intrigued me. The throat plate seems symetrical and logic would dictate that the blade should be ideally in the middle of the slot. The left hand bearing seems located properly (based on my crude overwrite below).

So my question is: What's happening behind that shroud?

Regardless of the throat plate issue, shouldn't the blade be right next to that bearing?

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I mounted the plate both directions and still the same. The guide bearings are pretty large and are hidden by the blade guard. None of the bearings are making contact. Marsh Powertools suggested (where I purchased) that I move the table/ trunions to center it... Not going to happen as everything is fixed in relationship with the frame. I can order new plastic zero clearance plates but its the little details that bug the begezzus outta me. FWIW... the pict that shows the blade making contact with the frame... the blade tension is relaxed. Doug, I took the brush off and its slotted everywhere but just not enough... I have run it long enough now that the bristles are worn abit so its not so much of an issue other than the point. I will be requesting one from customer service. When I get froggy I will break out the rattail file or dremel and correct the situation. Otherwise I have no complaints.

I ran some 8/4 oak thru it and it didnt miss a beat. It would cut as fast as I could feed it. I will try a bit of re-sawing this afternoon and see what happens...

I figured I would post a largely unbiased hobbiest review... I have no practical 'hands on' points to compair against other than watching Doug's MM in action. I am a CAD designer by trade and little details catch my attention.

The saw holds no disappointments... its a new product and things get missed often by those working intently on them. I deal with it every day at work.. no big deal but I am dissappointed in the first blade that I tried. Suffolk will be getting a call on Tuesday...
 
It appears the blade is against the right side of the back thrust bearing. The blade is meant to ride against its face, not on the side of that bearing.

Take care, Mike

Yep. I can't see it clearly for the orange guard, but thats the way it looks to me.
Thats why the blade isn't centered in the insert, and its eating up the bracket below.
 
Afternoon Brent...

My first post so I guess that makes me a "newbie". I wish my body felt that way! ha.. ha... Doug S. asked me to come over from Knots (FWW forum) to look at your problems with your new Steel City 18" BS. My curiousity was aroused after someone posted about it looking just like the Jet 18" and they were wondering if it was a copy? I had a down deposit on the MM 16" at that time but it still led me to the IWF (International WW Fair) in Atlanta to compare it to Jet and others for those that don't have the capability to see one first-hand.

Strickly a small seed of curiousity at the time, but soon that seed grew into a deeper interest. After 20 hours of going over every inch of it and it's competitors at both IWF and Redmond & Son Machinery here in Atlanta, I drew some conclussions. I showed up armed with machinest straight edges., machinist squares, tapes and 35 years observation and tinkering with WW machines.

My findings turned from curiousity to passion resulted in a long review thread at FWW Knots (I'm SARGE..grinder47) there and several follow up threads on which is current as a poorly executed review of the SC 18" just appeard in FWW in this month's issue. I along with others have re-futed that review as the reviewer is not a band-saw man, just a paid reviewer who has written some very good articles for the mag.. but apparentlty not a very good working knowledge of machinery. He found ans issue that should have never went to press before calling SC and getting it corrected as it was isolated and the title generate unfounded negative impressions. If I were Steel City I would be on the phone to Taunton Press on Tuesday when they open and I'm sure they will be.

Sorry to all for being so winded.. but when you spend the amount of time I have with this BS.. you ain't gonna cover ir all in a para-graph! :>)

I will try to be as brief as I can... I notice you are slightly annoyed that the insert in relationship to blade is off center.. and that the bracket for the wheel brush got drilled on a Monday or Friday by someone having a industrial "bad hair day".

Every one of the Steel City 18"s are not precisely center of insert aligned. If the blade is touching the edge of the insert slot, that is the worst I have en-countered so far. But.. being in the center of the slot is has nothing to do with the proper function of the saw. I looked at an "old iron" vintage 36" BS recently up for sale in Ark. at an auction. 2000 pounds of premium cast iron on that Tannewitz that didn't miss a beat 24/7 on a production line and guess what? The blade didn't ride center insert but what difference to the quality of the machine did it make. None! Solution.. enlarge the insert or even better yet put a zero tolerance on and drill some hole that will help with dust collection on what is already the finest dust pick up on any BS I have already seen.. barr none. And yep, that's includes the Itallion Stallions as MM, Laguna, Aggazani, etc. etc. I build Muscle Cars and I have never seen a steering wheel mounted dead center on the dash baord of them or any other car. Do they still function?

The brush was jammed into the wheel at the finest adjustment. The brush must not only touch the wheel to properly clear saw-dust, it must have decent pressure to lightly scrub. Solution:.. Take your shop scissors and trim the bristles to a point that occurs.

My thoughts are if these are the only points you found that you are not totally sastified.. you are a lucky man and Steel City did a fine job of engineering the saw before it delivered. Shakespear wrote, "Roses have throns and Silver Fountains mud".. And that is true with every peice of WW machinery (especially BS's as they are the most finiclky machine in your shop). Ask Doug what he has to do on his Stallion MM 16" to get the lower door open fully as the rear wheel on the mibility kit won't allow it to clear from the factory. Take a look at the armadilla tail (guide bar safety shield) on his Max and see if you have perfect access to the uppper bearing without visual interference. Same on your Steel City. The manufacturers have to extend the shield down over the bearing per thier countries export safety regulations to ship over-seas. Solution: Cut if off just below the bracket. Call MM tech and they will tell you to do the same thing. High tech stuff on an expensive saw! Ask Doug what he has to do to curve cut with a 1/2" or under blade.. and the MM still remains probably the best of it's class as I have viewed them.

So.. instead of fret over spare change, should we not see if the other factors that the large bulk of your investment went for contribute enough to over-ride the petty issues? I think so... Have a look under the hood.. at the chassis.. drive-train.. motor components.. pullies.. tension springs.. etc.. etc.. That's where preformance is going to come from...

You ask about comparison to others in it's class. I have been over the saw with a fine tooth comb and IMO you purchased the finest saw that comes off the Pacific Rim. A few minor changes as I never seen a perfect BS come from any manufacturer and you got a bona-fide medium heavy-weigh contender. I will mention them latter.

My findings are: The back-frame is well designed which means you can tension hard for beam strenght on large carbide blades if you have the springs to do so. The SC has Double tension springs which can deliver that necessary component. The upper support rail below the wheel has been beefed to aid the fore-metnioned. The wheels balanced.. the guides are eccentric and easy to adjust.. The table is 20'X20X. The fence is good and not many competitors can say that. The saw out weights the others by around 60 lbs. and that relates to virbration dampening. And that extra weight comes from some of the things mentioned above and not by placing an anchor in the base cabinet. Things that really count!

Enough for now. If I could make a few suggestions for you that might help. If you are going to use the Timberwolve blades, make sure that the insert slot is large enough to accomodate the flutter.. or just take if off when you do the flutter test. And I noticed that you purchased 1" blades. On a machine this size (bearing.. springs.. etc.) I think that 3/4" is plenty. I would never put as wide a blade on any BS as the wheel will accept and that includes the higher priced Stallions.

Put on the zero insert plate.. And when you notice that the set-screw in the bottom, rear thrust bearing is a PITA... replace it with a Knurled thumb screw. Not necessary.. but I would replace the other thumb screws with a Knurled thum screw also. The size on the regular thumbs is metric M5 x 8 and that PITA bottom rear is M6 x 1. Can be attained at Reid Supply or other machinery suppliers. Reid's ph# is 800-523-0421.. Pt# M6x1 AJ660 and pt# AJ648 for M5 x 8. Hang a flashlight near the saw to see better underneath. It helps on all BS.

Other than that.. it is up to you to fine tune the machine as any BS has to have done before it can preform at peak. Wheels co-planular.. bearing properly set.. pullies aligned.. blade at 90 degrees to table.. proper blade for job selection.. etc.. etc.. For any that don't have a through knowledge of BS's, Lonnie Bird's or Mark Dugenski's books on BS would be a wise investment. BS's are finicky... if you are not in tune with them they can be the most annoying machine in the shop.. once you master the know-how of making it work properly.. it can be the most flexible machine in the shop! A great BS in the hands of the someone unfamilar is virtually useless. A cheap, poor made BS in the hands of a knowlegeable operator will out-preform the supreme machine with a novice driver behing the wheel.

And Brett.. if you want to know any detail about the machine I cannot answer, give the Steel City Tech boys a call.. some techs don't know much more than the consumer, but I think you will find very knowledgeable techs at Steel City. You will likely have to wait a few moment as the tech most likley to answer will be out in the warehouse sweeping. (that cracked me up the first time I called :>) And it very well couldl be Scott Box.. warehouse sweeper, technician, and last but not least Co-owner and Co-designer of all the machines at Steel City Toolworks..

Again... sorry to all about the ultra lenghty post. I got to go down to my shop and get to work on that whie oak kitchen table on "my new BS" I got.That baby has over 500' linear feet of tough stuff (white oak-pecan aka hickory family.. black locust just to see if the "little engine could") shoved at down it's throat from every angle with a 3/4" Woodslicer mounted on those fine balanced wheels. It's taken it all without a burp and asking for more. It's got a permanent job in my shop as the work-horse that could..

BTW.. I canceled the deposit on the MM 16" as I decided that as I don't turn and need the extra 4" re-saw height.. and the fact that I by accident found a saw suited to my shop needs based on my 35 years of wood-whacking track record. So.....

My wife being from Pittsburg and the fact that I am blue-collar southern boy that demands good quality at a good price.. loaded a Steel City 18" in the back of my pick-up and took it home to mama!

And in the words of a truly great American.. Larry the cable-man.. That STEEL CITY "gets er done" and that's a fact...

Merry Christmas to all from the newbie... and if ya are in the neighbor-hood, drop by as the welcome mat is always out and the porch light is always on at my house...

Sarge.. jt.. john thompson
 
Steve and Mike...

He's got the tenion released with the tension release lever (and a good one at that) as the guide bar is micro-adjustable allowing precision adjustment so the bearing don't have to be adjusted each time you raiser or lower the guide bar.

I always visually check blade-bearing and gullet alignment after re-asserting tension with tension bar as it does leave the blade dangling as you see in the bottom pics he posted, but it has always returned to the same setting so far. A few turns of the wheel manually after tension is re-set to insure tracking is as you left it is worthy also.. even though I have never had to touch or re-adjust the tracking at this point.

Brett should have probably tensioned it before he took the pic as it could be very decieving.
 

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To all... I didn't mean to imply that I was dissatisfied with the saw, I only wanted to point out my observations on what I have found as this is the biggest investment to date in my hobby and newest passion/ form of therapy.

If I had not smelled what amounted to burning rubber, I never would have noticed the brush. Its not a big deal and I probably will eventually modify the holes to increase the adjustment so that as the brush wears I can get it closer to the wheel. The shorter bristles won't flex as much and will clean the wheel better.

As for the insert, I didnt expect the blade to be centered in the opening but would expect a blade to not make contact with it right out of the shipping crate. I have new plastic inserts on order and will modify the factory supplied one for use until the replacements are recieved. I still plan on calling customer service to share what I have found. Customer feedback leads to better products.

I was challenged by the rep from SteelCity to try to bog this saw down and I haven't been able to do so yet. I know that I made the right decision in deciding to purchase this saw. Would I recommend it to someone that was in the market for one?? Absolutely, without reservation. I am currently saving my pennys for another SC machine. Haven't decided which but I will purchase from them again.

John, thanks for joining us here and sharing your knowledge. I purchased the 1in blades as a recommendation from Suffolk based off the uses that I have planned. I purchased 'spares' for the blades that I plan on using most as they are, for the most part, a disposable item. This is my first bandsaw and I know very little about the nuances of blade selection other than the principals of cut and minimum radius. From what I have read, most people won't use the max blade size that the machine will accept because of tensioning ability. So I am curious as to why you would not use a 1in blade when its capacity is 1 1/4?
 
Hey JT, great review, great post and great to have you here!

Brent, I'm still very jealous of your new saw, yeah, I know I got Big Blue, but that saw does not cut circles well with a 2 1/4" wide blade :rolleyes:

Cheers!
 
Morning Brent..

I'll get a short post in before I go wrestle with some muscle cars at work. I work part time anymore 2 PM EST - 10 PM 4 days a week, so my time is split between early and late.

I'm sure the SC 18" will handle the 1" blade without any problem. But.. if you compared it to their 20" with Double springs, the wheel is a bit narrower and the springs are a bit smaller. Not much mind you as your 18" has a ton of spring and those Double springs give you more tension than anything in the Pacific Rim class. So.. I'm leading to why I wouldn't personally and the majority probably would run the larger blade. :>)

Let's have a look at blades which are a large contributor to how any BS will perform assigned a specific task. Mini Mas recommends a 1" carbide blade on thier 16" and you noticed Doug's saw has a ton of spring. I agree that is perfect for his saw. Carbide blades require 25,000 psi of tension to get correct beam strenght. Bi-metal requires 22,000 psi. Regular carbon @18,000 and thin kerfs can be run with a bit less. So...

With the Timberwolve you are using.. 1" should be not present a problem now or the future as the TW is a Thin Kerf as the Highland Woodslicer and it's variable pitch teeth. But the wider you get the more tension has to be applied to achieve beam strengh. The wider you get the more drag and the motor is taxed slightly more. The wider you go relates to less of a curvature you are capable of with that particular blade without making a swap. And in defense of wider.. the wider you go slightly decreases the pressure exerted on a tire as it distributes pressure slightly more even.

My theory is one based on the long haul and not Now! By going narrower I save $$ Now.. but I save efficiency on both motor and springs that can only be measured in the long haul. If a driver with a new vehicle guns the accelartor from red-light to red-light and brakes hard at last moment instead of backing off the accelarator and letting the engine speed and gravity slow him down...... will he get more or less miles overall out of that vehicle than a driver who does. Which is more likely to drive their vehicles 200,000 miles + with thier different approachs?

Bottom line for me and of course this is only my opionion... I am not going to use more blade width than I need! The blade pitch and TPI are a bigger factor in perfecting a cut than width. Width is important to attain better beam strenght, but why use more than is really required to get a good cut? So.. now too wide and not too narrow..

I and many others have used a Woodslicer 1/2" re-sawing for many years on a less powered and less sprung machine than our 18" SC. You won't find many that complain of poor cut. I use a Lennox 1/2" bi-metal on that same smaller saw and I rip large amounts of rough stock. Great cut...

Now that I have a larger HP and heavier sprung saw such as ours.. because I CAN does not in my mind relate to I WILL for both the $$ saved now and the longevity issue I presented.

So.. bottom line is "of course you can".. but if you can think of any significant reasons that it is not necessary.. WHY WOULD YOU??

Regards...

JT.. john t.. sarge
 
Morning Stuart..

Thanks for the welcome.. Hey, if you are stranded in Tokoyo and can't purchase a map to get back to the states.. e-mail you mailing address and I'll send ya one "on the house". ha.. ha...

Just kiddin' of course...

Regards...

JT.. sarge
 
John, I spoke with Jim (a tech I think) at SC. I described the 2 issues that I had found. The brush he said he would look into it. As for the table/ insert... well...

They have had a comment or two about it and because of a not so nice review in one of the mags, they are changing thier stance on publishing all of the adjustments possible on thier machine. If you remove the table, the 4 capscrews holding the trunion down have slotted or oversize holes that will allow the table to be shifted and squared with the blade. This will address my issue with the blade /insert. In addition, there are additional adjustments that will allow the bearing support rod to be adjusted/ squared to the blade and table. We went over these adjustments while I was on the phone and examining my saw. The updates to the owners manual should be on their website by spring.
 
Evening Brett...

Still at work with a lull before the storm. Excellent foot-work on getting the up-date. I don't have any problem with either, but that will be helpful to others that do. I may give tech a call tomorrow just for fun.

Do you acutally have a problem with the guide? I may move the table to center slot, even though that doesn't present a problem in my case.

Regards...

JT.. sarge
 
no problems with the guides, altho I will be ordering the knurled screws that you suggested. I have to do some measurements requested by the tech at suffolk on a bad blade (small price to get it replaced) then I will take the table off and adjust the position of the trunion and re-square the table to the blade. Too bad there isnt more room for wrench access with the table on.
 
Brent
Didn't think about this when I was over looking at your saw, and I realize that taking the table off aint that big of a deal. But I've got some 3/8 drive allen wrenches for wratchet wrench use. You just might be able to use those to loosen the bolts with the table still attached. You're welcome to borrow them if I have the right size you need.
 
Doug, thanks for the generous offer. I happen to have a set in the toolbox. Depending on how things go, I might play with it some today. I dont know why I didnt think of this, but I can use the table tilt to gain the necessary access to do the adjustments with the table still on!:thumb:

Now why didn't I think of that earlier??:huh:
 
Morning Doug and Brett...

Actually tilting the table and when it comes down to it, taking if off is a breeze compared to most saws. I just went down and took mine off withing 30 seconds. Just turn the knobbed handles on each side that secure the table bolts. I took it completely off with the blade tensioned by being careful, but removing the blade would be better if you don't have a steady hand.

I didn't think you had a problem with the guides Brett, but just wanted to confirm. I just got off the line with JIm at SC and when he found out it was me, he put me on speaker phone with he, MIke and Scott Box. They knew I would be calling about the stinky titled review in FWW magazine as there is heavy debate about the smear on other sites.

The review revealed his machine credentials by stating the table had a crown at the slot .024.. And in the same breath stated he measured with the pin pulled out. Whoa...... A table is ground with pin in... period! You can grind a table to a perfect .000 and if the pin is not exactly put into the exact position that it was ground.. you will never see .000 again.

And the saw he used had a bad weld on the upper guide bracket. I have put a 2" machinist square on 4 different SC BS's and all were 90 degrees. But yes.. the bracket could have been mis-aligned when the assembly line guy welded it. The reviewer did the review without calling SC for an over-nite replacement to correct. He didn't set the saw up either. He just took it off them crate and reviewed woithout fine tuning.

Jim is e-mailing a Re-buttal letter written by SC to Taunton Press expressing their dis-pleasure with the way the review was conducted by what appears to be a Non-Machine saavy reviewer and the title of "Steel City 18" BS Has Some Flaws". It should not have been printed under the circumstances that it was!

Got to get to work and regards for the day....

JT.. sarge
 
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