Centerless Pen Turning

Pete Simmons

Member
Messages
546
Location
Melbourne, FL
Here are a few pics of Centerless Pen Turning. I am totally sold on this method and have the bushings for most of the common pens that I make and definately all my high end pens.

I think Frank F. will also say he likes this method.


The old pen mandrel looks more like a crankshaft with the amount of flex you can easily get in the middle.

This method is right on the money. I have not measured runout with this method but I bet it is close to zero.

The bushings fit so perfect that you get a definate pop when you remove them from the tubes. Glue run into your tubes - you better not with these bushings as the fit is perfect.

I do not sell the bushings. I get them from John Gooden. The standard set up is a hard steel set plus a Delrin set turned just a little undersize used for sandind and finishing. Delrin so that CA and/or your finish does not stick to them.

What makes the wood turn with no solid connection? Friction of the 60 degree centers pushing up against the bushings.

Try it sometime - you will like it.

BTW - The wood shown is Morton Bay Fig from T. Edisons house in Ft Myers, FL.


1 st - picture is the wood on a standard mandrel. No need for this to turn this pen Just shown for comparision.

2 nd - Using centerless bushing

3 rd - out of bushings to show the set up

4 th - engraved Edison box

5 th - Set of bushings
 

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I have read and thought a lot about this type of turning. Glad you found you like it. Am eventually going to buy myself a small bench metal lathe so I can make my own bushings for whatever it is I want to turn. Thanks for showing and love the pen box. Your engraving is beautiful as always.
 
Looks interesting. Is there some reason you can't just use the regular bushings that would ordinarily go on a mandrel?

I've got a collet chuck and figure it'd be pretty easy to fit one of my 60 centers in that do do the 'driving'.

For my nicer pens, I've been 'choking' up on the mandrel with the collet chuck and doing only one side of the pen at a time. I find that greatly reduced the runout. I'd then put them both on the mandrel for finishing.

This method seems to eliminate the run out entirely.
 
Bushings

Maybe could use regular bushings but these have a 60 degree cut into the end for a great fit.

These are also much better bushings. Right on the money size wise and made from a harder steel so they last.

With your regular bushings is there sometimes a little slop in the bushing to pen tube fit? Not with these they fit the pen tubes perfect!
 
I hear you on the bushings. I've got some for a pen kit that are just flat out the wrong size for the pen kit they are for. They are 'close', but a few thou can really make a differenct.
 
Edison Pen

Finished Edison Pen - Morton Bay Fig Tree wood.



And a little more info ( Frank if you may know more on this please help)

J Gooden may not be making the bushings any more. Paul Huffman (of Huffman pen vise fame ) may now be making these bushings.

If I find out any more info I will post.
 

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That looks like a method I should try. I've about quit turning pens because I was getting frustrated in my attempts to get the pieces turned without runout. (I need to also try the 'one piece at a time' approach that Brent mentioned.)

Beautiful pen and box, too, Pete. :clap:
 
First: Knock-out fine pen. Results speak loudly.
The term "centerless" threw me. I have heard it before but never knew exactly what it meant. I have had 'centerless ground' items and just accepted that is was good thing.
The special bushings you are referring to are new to me. I do like the idea of very precise bushings made from hard steel. Where can we get?
But, I have made all my pens to date with the standard bushings that come from the popular sources. e.g. CS, PSI, etc.
Now, for clarification, the method, and term "no mandrel turning" was not invented by me. Someone else first posted the method on one of the penturning forums a number of years ago. Then the idea sorta went silent. One day I tried it, liked it and posted my results and thoughts. Then the method, for whatever reason, got very popular. I have been incorrectly credited with originating the method. I can't take credit for it.
Except for 7mm pens (Slimlines, Europeans, etc.) I now do all my pens with the 'no mandrel' method. Eliminating the mandrel also eliminates sloppy fit of bushing to the rod and flexing in the rod. This eliminates out-of-round finished pens.
As Pete showed, quality goes up.
When I turn, I use the bushing for guidance as to size. And, me not being a visual person, needs the bushing to help see what the final product will look like. I turn the ends to a couple thou oversize and hit the corner with a slight bevel, very slight. I then remove the bushings, replace the turned blank onto the centers and sand down. After doing just a few this way one can sand down quite accurately without measuring. And, that tiny bevel helps 'cheat' in acquiring a perfect mate with the kit fittings. It takes more time than using the mandrel but makes a much better pen. I have less blank failures with the no mandrel method. Not sure why. Mebbe not having rod flex eliminates some vibration that results in catches that cause blanks to blow up. Just mebbe. Dunno. :dunno: But, that might make up for time lost otherwise.
Ennyhow, I'm hijacking the thread here. Will just say, if you make, or are trying to make, nice pens, like Jr. Gents, Statesmen, etc. do try the no mandrel method, you will like it. :clap:
 
Pete that is a beautiful pen. As I told you I also quit turning pens because it didn't seem to make any difference which mandrel I used I never could get them to come out symetrical. One side was always wider than the rest. I didn't want to mess with a bunch of this and that to correct it so I just don't turn pens much. I would definitely be interested if you find any info on who makes them.
 
Great looking pen and great link to history. I too don't do pens because I just couldn't get them "perfect enough". This looks like an answer. What are you using as a drive center in this photo?
 

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Bernie, standard bushings work just fine. More precise could be more better but I am happy with results from standard bushings.

Ken, I can't speak for Pete, but use a plain ole MT2 dead center for the drive and a 60 degree live center for the.....uh....live center.
I got mine from Grizzly but went to the machine tool side of the store for them. Centers made for woodworking are cheaper in every respect. Cost less but are made with soft steel and will give you grief. Machine tool ones are made with hardened steel and last and last and..... Still don't cost all that much either.
 
60 degree centers

Frank said it all - 60 degree dead center for the drive end and a 60 degree live center for the other end.

Friction is the magic that makes the wood turn.
 
Bernie, standard bushings work just fine. More precise could be more better but I am happy with results from standard bushings.

I know they work Frank but I guess I am to much of a perfectionist. I like the same amount of wood on one side of my pens as the other and more often than not they don't. I have the least trouble with Sierra pens than any others. They assemble fine and look ok but not as my dad would say Fine looking. I expect better and I know the bushings aren't precision.
 
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