Table Saw Fence

Bruce Moffitt

Member
Messages
34
Location
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I have a Ridgid 3650 table saw and have been having some kick back problems. I have tried realigning the fence but the problem doesn’t go away. While at the Ottawa wood show I went to the table saw tune-up seminar and afterwards it was suggested that I should consider a new fence (the intimation was that the existing fence was not very good). The person giving the seminar also sells Red Line Fence Systems. What are your thoughts on the quality of the Ridgid fence should I replace it? I would also appreciate any comments on the Red Line Fence System or other suggestions on replacements.
 
I don't have experice with either of the fences, but am wondering if there might be a different issue. If the blade is parallel to the table and the fence is parallel to the blade, you shouldn't be seeing kickbacks for the most part.

I guess I'd like to know a bit more about what types of wood you are cutting? Are you ripping or cross-cutting when the kickbacks occur? Do you use a splitter or blade guard with a splitter? Is the blade new and what type (brand and tooth count) is it? Perhaps we can narrow down what is happening when the issue occurs to see if it is the fence.
 
I've got the TS3650, and although I did replace my factory fence with an Incra fence, I think the seminar speaker you talked to is blowing smoke up your backside. There's nothing wrong at all with the Ridgid fence IMHO.

You mentioned that you tried to realign the fence. What method did you use to do it? I suspect we can help you get it aligned. As Darren mentioned, it may not have anything to do with the fence itself.
 
I have the same saw. The fence was fine. Yes, I also replaced mine, but not because there was anything really wrong with the old one (I wanted the repeatability the incra gave me).

You do need to make sure it's properly adjusted. What are you using to true it up? Until you get the blade, miter slot, and fence alinged, no aftermarket fence will be useful! ;)

Thanks,

Bill
 
The Ridgid fence is very similar to an after-market one I bought on purpose for my previous saw. My dad is still using it and it is fine. This doesn't mean you shouldn't get a nicer fence if that's what you want. It just means that your current one is probably not your problem.

If your blade and fence are parallel, your splitter is aligned correctly, etc. Kickbacks should be almost non-existent. Now, ripping boards that have not had the face jointed flat, wet lumber and lumber that releases a lot of stress . . . that'll do it. We all try to learn to avoid or safely work around these things.
 
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The fact that the show booth was hawking the Red Line fence should automatically flag a little BS alert!

I'm not sure how the Red Line is different than the Accusquare, but other than the nifty accessories, I doubt it's much of an improvement over the Ridgid fence. While I'm not a big fan of the Ridgid aluminum fence, it is at least well executed for that type design and offers support at both ends, and is functional. I tend to prefer the strength and simplicity of the front locking t-square designs like the Biese. A t-square design benefits from the strength of steel to minimize deflection. The Accusquare is an aluminum t-square that's not as strong as the steel versions. It's a nice upgrade from many of the old Emerson Craftsman fences, but IMO would be more of a lateral move compared to the Ridgid. It's always a matter of preference, but I'd look at a minimum of something like the Delta T2 if I were making that upgrade....Vega, Biese, HTC, Incra, Jointech, etc, are all excellent choices, though more costly.
 
Start with the basics. What is and what causes kickback?

In a nut shell the wood gets on top of the blade and the teeth grab the part and throws it at you. So what is allowing the blade to lift the part?

Two things come to my mind. Make sure your fence is parallel to the blade or slightly wider at the back of the blade. If the distance is smaller at the back then the part may be pushed against the blade lifting the wood.

The other thing maybe your not holding the part down/allowing it lift up. Or leaving a part trapped between the fence and blade and not pushing it through.

I don't think you need a new fence unless that one is damaged.

Hope that helps.
 
Was going to wait to hear back from you Bruce, but everyone here is covering most of the issues with kickback. Wood pinching the blade on the back side is also a cause, this is where the splitter would help if that was the case. Let us know if any suggestions help though.
 
re Table saw fence

Wow, Great response!
Nice to know I don't have to spend $250+ on a new fence!
To answer some of the questions:
I was ripping 1" maple when the first and most dangerous kickbacks occurred (luckily I only have a rather large bruise on my stomach to show for it and I now stand to the left when ripping). When ripping 2" thick ash the board tries to lift and because I haven't been using the guard and splitter it jams the blade and trips the breaker (to prevent this I have been using small wedges in the saw cut behind the blade.
My blade is a Freud Fusion 40 Tooth combination type, it has been sharpened and it’s clean.
in order to adjust the fence parallel to the mitre slot I set a steel scale set in the mitre slot at the front, move the fence up to it, tightening it, move the scale to the rear and check for gaps and readjust as necessary until there is no gap (front or rear). For the blade I use an adjustable square in the slot set it so it is touching a front tooth then move it to a rear tooth and adjust the trunnion until both teeth just touch the end of the square. I guess both methods are not perfect, I probably should buy one of those alignment tools with the dial indicator to do it properly (A-line-it).
As a newbie any suggestions on use and set up of the table saw and fence alignment would be greatly appreciated.
 
...I probably should buy one of those alignment tools with the dial indicator to do it properly (A-line-it).
As a newbie any suggestions on use and set up of the table saw and fence alignment would be greatly appreciated.

Your method is very sound, and you don't need a hundred dollar alignment tool. Your method is plenty good enough. You're probably within a couple thousandths of perfect, and regardless of their hype, that's about what the expensive tools do too.

Two comments: The above comments presume that you used the same miter slot to align bot the blade and the fence. (Sometimes the two miter slots aren't exactly parallel.)

Also, when aligning the blade, it's best to use the same tooth at the front and back. Mark one tooth with a magic marker, then align using that tooth at the front and then rotate the blade and use that same tooth to check the alignment at the rear. Repeat several times. Note that you shouldn't move the blade with your hand. You may slightly tweak it. Instead, use your hand on the belt to move the blade. (You did unplug the saw before beginning this alignment, didn't you?)
 
Bruce,

Jim's advice is spot on. I never, repeat never rip without my splitter. It is just asking for a kickback. My splitter is an aftermarket type that is removable and has anti-kickback pawls. It is very quick to remove for other cuts and because of that I am more inclined to use it when I need to.
 
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Bruce,

sometimes our own words say it all:

I haven't been using the guard and splitter

I'm not going to make this into a debate (personally, I never make a cut on my 3650 without those installed, but I know others do differently). The point is, you must have *something* there, or it's just the constant threat of kickback. Lots of people swear by these: http://www.amazon.com/MJ-SPLITTER-Kerf-Saw-Blade/dp/B000H570BA Others have their own favorites. But with nothing there you're just asking for trouble...

Thanks,

Bill

Ps. all the cool cats on the block have one of these: http://www.leestyron.com/sharkridgid.php

By the way, are you *the* Bruce Moffitt, the famous canadian curling champion?

.
 
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I'll echo the other comments about a splitter. I'm in the "no blade guard" camp, but I always use a splitter (the MJ Splitter Bill linked to). I'm also a very avid fan of the Grrripper push block. I haven't used push sticks ever since I got the Grrripper. It gives much better control of the cut, IMHO.
 
Jim: I'll make sure to use the same slot, same tooth and the belt next time (yes I unplug :)).
Bill, Bill: Lee Valley Tools have a splitter I'll pick one up there.
Vaughn: The gripper looks interesting.
PS
Bill L: I'm the not so famous curler. I curl once in a while but can't throw hard and straight anymore.
Thanks for the help.
 
All good advise - it's good to read over this stuff once in a while to refresh the brain. I do have two things to add:
1) when cutting, make sure the blade isn't set too tall. It should clear the top of the stock you're cutting, but no more than the height of the carbide teeth - the bottom of the teeth should not completely clear the top of the stock.
2) You don't need to spend a lot of dough on a splitter. I drilled a pair of 1/8" holes through my zero clearance insert in line with the blade - one just behind it - the other near the back edge of the insert. Then, i pressed a couple of 1/8" roll pins into the holes so that they stuck up about 3/8" above the surface of the insert. The kerf on my blades is a bit narrower than 1/8", so i "tuned" up the pin width using a small file. This took all of 3 minutes. After the wood passes the blade, the first pin splits the wood and the second pin does the same, keeping things in line. It cost all of about 58 cents to make, took fifteen minutes, and works great. I don't need to remove the splitter for dado or other "non-through" cuts, and i can easily adust the height if needed simply by pressing the pins up or down. On the rare occassions when i make angled rip cuts, i snap in my shop made flat steel splitter when i change out the insert. I could leave this splitter in all the time, but i find those to be a hassle and prefer the pins-in-the-insert approach.
Paul Hubbman
 
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