Stack Dado Question?

Charles Hans

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Independence, Kentucky
I am going to geta 8" stack Dado set and I looked at the Grizzly, and I am skeptical since it is so much cheaper than other brands such as Freud or Forrest. Does anyone have their set? and does it cut flat bottom dado's, and what about tear out on sheet goods? I would like to hear what others have experienced with them. This is not something that I will use a lot, but want something that will do a good job. I don't want to buy twice. I understand that you get what you pay for.
Thanks,
Chuck
 
charles the first questio you need to answer is,,can your saw accept a stacked dado blade from those you mentioned. i wasnt as informed early on and knew i wanted a knew dadao bought the frued and it wouldnt work on my old craftsman saw:eek: so i now had a dado and no saw that would run it ..so look at your saw the arbor needs to set up so it wil work.. then as for who has the best i still have the frued and love it but they are others out there that are just as good.. not gonna compare havnt only had the frued ..others willchim in and tell you there thoughts:thumb: another thing to look at is a 6" dado head runs better on smaller HP saws and you get a smaller shelf to clean out if you run a stopped dadao on a project!
 
I have owned others. I currently run a Frued SD508 on a 1-3/4HP hybrid and am very happy with the performance. Larry is on target about checking what your saw will run. I wanted the SD608 but did not have the arbor for it. In practice I do not miss the dial adjustment at all for my work.
 
Hi Chuck - Most contractor saws and hybrids will just barely accept a full stack, and typically need to leave off the arbor washer to do it...which is a common practice recommended by many manufacturers. Most cabinet saws have slightly longer arbors and will accept the stack with the washer.

I have not tried the Grizzly dado, but did read some solid positive comments from a forum regular who owned it....can't recall who or what forum! :huh: The design is similar to the Systimatic 42T/6T Superfine dado set that I had....that was an excellent set, but with a retail of $300 it sure the heck better be! Oshlun has a similar set too that's nearly an identical design to the Systimatic that's getting good remarks as a very good dado and excellent value. (I believe Holbren offers 10% to members...?)

If you're uncertain about trying the Griz or Oshlun, Grizzly has the DW7670/H7200 set on sale for $89.95, which is more money but is a really nice set with a great case and very nice shim stock, and it's more proven.

As far as flat bottoms go....truly flat bottoms will only come from an flat top grind with excellent precision....I'm not aware of any sets that use all FTG teeth on the cutters (doesn't mean they don't exist), except for the box joint blades, which are limited to 1/4" and 3/8". Most dado sets use an ATB because it has lower tearout, but leave minor "bat ears" at the bottom of the kerf. Some alternate an FTG raker to minimize them. Tearout on the backside is a partly a function of the grind, the hook angle, number of teeth, feedrate, the material, etc., etc....using a backerboard can minimize that a lot. Oversizing the piece, then ripping to final width after the dado cut will remove the tearout (as long as you cut off the exit side! :doh:) If you want "good" to "very good" performance, a $50-$100 set will probably do the trick. If you want top shelf performance from a dado set, you're probably gonna need to spend $150-$200 (Infinity, SD508, Ridge Carbide, Forrest). A router bit is one method of getting a truly flat bottom dado cheaply, but the tearout is usually worse than with a dado set.
 

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I use my 8" Amana stacked dado set on my Delta 12" RAS. I don't have a TS in my shop.

My set has ATB outer blades, but Amana makes a different set with either TCG or FTG (I think TCG) for a perfectly flat dado. I bought this set when I was still very, very new to woodworking - if I was buying a set now I would try not to get an ATB outer set. On the other hand, maybe the ATB outers are useful for crossgrain material removal.

What I have read about stacked dado sets is that X - 4" (or smaller) is the size recommended for normal use and X - 2" when absolutely necessary. (X is the maximum blade size for the saw).

I'm not an expert by any stretch - maybe someone else will chime in with more details on the recommended size thing.
 
Never used a Grizzly but I bet I know what will happen. It will cut just fine but your dado will not have truly flat bottom. It will have ridges because the arbor holes are not held to a tight tolerance and/or the blades tolerance concentrically are not held tight enough. Meaning one blade is going to be higher than the other.

I have a cheap set and it works, but if your going to do good work, your going to want a better set. So I say just cry once and buy a good dado stack. It's on my list too.
 
Never used a Grizzly but I bet I know what will happen. It will cut just fine but your dado will not have truly flat bottom. It will have ridges because the arbor holes are not held to a tight tolerance and/or the blades tolerance concentrically are not held tight enough. Meaning one blade is going to be higher than the other.

I have a cheap set and it works, but if your going to do good work, your going to want a better set. So I say just cry once and buy a good dado stack. It's on my list too.

If what Jeff describes is what you were asking about, my Amana set is flat. The only thing not flat is the little bite at the sides from the ATB outer blades.
 
Never used a Grizzly but I bet I know what will happen. It will cut just fine but your dado will not have truly flat bottom. It will have ridges because the arbor holes are not held to a tight tolerance and/or the blades tolerance concentrically are not held tight enough. Meaning one blade is going to be higher than the other.

I have a cheap set and it works, but if your going to do good work, your going to want a better set. So I say just cry once and buy a good dado stack. It's on my list too.
I have an inexpensive set (name escapes me at the moment...begins with an "A", but it's not Amana). I've had no complaints about non-flat bottoms when using it. Plus, on anything I've made with dado cuts, the bottoms of the cuts are hidden anyway, by the material that is inserted into the dado.
 
I have an inexpensive set (name escapes me at the moment...begins with an "A", but it's not Amana). I've had no complaints about non-flat bottoms when using it. Plus, on anything I've made with dado cuts, the bottoms of the cuts are hidden anyway, by the material that is inserted into the dado.

I'm assuming that the reason he wants a perfectly flat bottom Vaughn, is because he may be making things that have the dado joint's end showing, such as cabinet dividers where no Face Frame covers the joint leaving it exposed, and with the "Wing" effect from the ATB outer blades, it doesn't look good.
(Just my perception).:dunno:
 
I have an inexpensive set (name escapes me at the moment...begins with an "A", but it's not Amana). I've had no complaints about non-flat bottoms when using it. Plus, on anything I've made with dado cuts, the bottoms of the cuts are hidden anyway, by the material that is inserted into the dado.

Avenger? AFAIK, Avenger became Oshlun.
 
Hi Mark - I've never seen a stacked dado that had cutters with other than ATB or ATB/R on them, but I've only owned 5, and handled a few others, so there are many I've never seen. In general, if all other parameters are equal, an ATB grind will slice fibers cleaner than FTG or TCG in crosscuts...the steeper the bevel the cleaner the slice, but hook angle and several factors come into play. Most ATB/R designs leave the tip of the beveled teeth protruding slightly above the raker so leading edge of the cut is from the ATB teeth to take advantage of the characteristics of the ATB teeth without. The raker tooth follows and levels the bottom of the cut without sacrificing any gains from the ATB teeth, but reduces the "V" in the bottom caused by the ATB. TCG is typically used where high durability is desired...it's often seen in non-ferrous metal applications, melamine blades, laminate flooring, MDF, blades, etc, because the sharp points that tend to break or abrade rapidly are already chamfered off by design so there's less drop off in performance over time. With that said, there's always an exception, and actual end results depend on a lot of other things.
 
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Thanks for all the information Guys. And yes Norman, that is exactly what I am going to have to do in an upcoming piece the ends will show and I am wanting to avoid any gaps that will detract form the look. I have an old OLD wobble blade that I detest but just never did upgrade, so now looks like the time. Thanks again everyone.
Chuck
 
Bingo! Avenger is the brand. Scott the Blade Man nailed it. It was inexpensive, and had mixed reviews when I bought mine, but I've been happy with it.

Not sure if they revamped their dado designs when they became Oshlun or not, but my 40T Oshlun is pretty dern good....I can't say with a straight face that it's in the league of a Forrest, Infinity, Ridge Carbide, etc., but it's surprisingly well made for a $25 blade and cuts "good nuff" for most situations...and I always thought I was on the fussy side. :dunno: Does your Avenger look anything like the Griz and Oshlun designs?
 
Thanks for all the information Guys. And yes Norman, that is exactly what I am going to have to do in an upcoming piece the ends will show and I am wanting to avoid any gaps that will detract form the look. I have an old OLD wobble blade that I detest but just never did upgrade, so now looks like the time. Thanks again everyone.
Chuck

Charles, IF whatever set you decide on doesn't give you the "Perfect" flat bottom for the Fine Joint look that you want, you can get a router bit that is made to clean up Dados. It looks like a VERY short Pattern bit, and although it would add an extra step, it does a beautiful job. You just make the dado using your dado set on the saw but make sure that the deepest part of the dado is at least a paper thickness or so, short of the depth you want, and then just set the proper depth on the router bit and the bearing will run inside the dado to guide it and it will clean the bottom perfectly flat AND square the bottom corners and it's very quick to do.

Note: you wouldn't have to use the router procedure on the dado's that won't show at the ends.

Hope this helps.
 
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