Violation of Ruth Niles Patent

Barbara Gill

Member
Messages
88
Location
Remlik, Virginia
There is a guy in Canada who bought some of Ruth's stainless steel stoppers and then proceeded to manufacture and sell them. He recently was caught selling them to someone in the U.S. Ruth said he has already heard from the Custom agents and her attorney.

His name is Donald Fontaine and his web site is http://www.dfi-stainless-steel.com/


I hope I am not violating any rules by posting this here. Ruth has worked hard and long with developing her stopper. The original thread can be seen at:
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/turning3.pl?read=198392
 
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Barbara:

Thanks for the update. I think that we as turners should support those who make the effort to produce quality products for our industry like Ruth has done.

I'm hoping Ruth is going to be at the Florida Woodturning Symposium again this week so she can see first-hand how much we apprciate her products.
 
I notice that you specifically say that he shipped some to the US. If Ruth only has a US patent, that guy can legally make and sell the units in Canada and anywhere else she doesn't hold a patent (to the best of my understanding of patent law). All she can do is prevent him from selling in the US.

And enforcing a patent is expensive. All a patent grants you is the right to enforce it but you have to bring the action and pay the legal fees. If all he did was ship a couple of units into the US, her damages would be extremely small. But perhaps she just wants to prevent him from shipping any more to the US.

Disclaimer: I an not an attorney - this is just my layman understanding of patent law.

Mike
 
I notice that you specifically say that he shipped some to the US. If Ruth only has a US patent, that guy can legally make and sell the units in Canada and anywhere else she doesn't hold a patent (to the best of my understanding of patent law). All she can do is prevent him from selling in the US.

And enforcing a patent is expensive. All a patent grants you is the right to enforce it but you have to bring the action and pay the legal fees. If all he did was ship a couple of units into the US, her damages would be extremely small. But perhaps she just wants to prevent him from shipping any more to the US.

Disclaimer: I an not an attorney - this is just my layman understanding of patent law.

Mike

That pretty much is true except I think there are penalties for violating the law. My main focus is letting people know so they will not buy from him.
 
That pretty much is true except I think there are penalties for violating the law. My main focus is letting people know so they will not buy from him.
I'm pretty sure patent issues are civil issues and not criminal issues (that is, you can't go to jail for patent infringement). It is possible, I believe, for a patent holder to get a court order that will cause the customs people to seize merchandise at the border, but that's still civil and not criminal. All they do is impound the items for the court.

But I understand your aims in posting the information and I support your efforts. Good luck!

Mike
 
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1) Please read this post carefully before y'all jump on me for it...

2) I am NOT posting as a moderator - just as a person who believes strongly in all the rights and freedoms that are protected by courts, judges and juries of our peers.


Apparently someone has copied a patented item and is selling into a country where the patent is in force. If this is the case, then it is wrong and I am all in favour of the appropriate legal course being taken and the appropriate punishment being levied by a court with the proper authority.

However, what I see in this thread is an accusation, where the accused has not been informed that we in this forum are accusing and it appears convicting them without allowing a defence to be mounted by them. I have not seen any evidence that there have been any charges laid, never mind a conviction by a court of the land, yet we continue with our internet lynching.

Once the proper legal courses have been followed, then hang them high and bash them on the web to our hearts content, but until then I think we can do better.

I know I'm in the minority and I probably should keep my mouth shut, but it's how I feel so I'll be the odd man out and take the heat as a result.

cheers

john
 
1) Please read this post carefully before y'all jump on me for it...

2) I am NOT posting as a moderator - just as a person who believes strongly in all the rights and freedoms that are protected by courts, judges and juries of our peers.


Apparently someone has copied a patented item and is selling into a country where the patent is in force. If this is the case, then it is wrong and I am all in favour of the appropriate legal course being taken and the appropriate punishment being levied by a court with the proper authority.

However, what I see in this thread is an accusation, where the accused has not been informed that we in this forum are accusing and it appears convicting them without allowing a defence to be mounted by them. I have not seen any evidence that there have been any charges laid, never mind a conviction by a court of the land, yet we continue with our internet lynching.

Once the proper legal courses have been followed, then hang them high and bash them on the web to our hearts content, but until then I think we can do better.

I know I'm in the minority and I probably should keep my mouth shut, but it's how I feel so I'll be the odd man out and take the heat as a result.

cheers

john


Nope. I got the odd man out award first.
This discussion is not about woodworking/turning. It belongs elsewhere.
To be polite and unofficial, I'll add: IMHO
 
1) Please read this post carefully before y'all jump on me for it...

2) I am NOT posting as a moderator - just as a person who believes strongly in all the rights and freedoms that are protected by courts, judges and juries of our peers.


Apparently someone has copied a patented item and is selling into a country where the patent is in force. If this is the case, then it is wrong and I am all in favour of the appropriate legal course being taken and the appropriate punishment being levied by a court with the proper authority.

However, what I see in this thread is an accusation, where the accused has not been informed that we in this forum are accusing and it appears convicting them without allowing a defence to be mounted by them. I have not seen any evidence that there have been any charges laid, never mind a conviction by a court of the land, yet we continue with our internet lynching.

Once the proper legal courses have been followed, then hang them high and bash them on the web to our hearts content, but until then I think we can do better.

I know I'm in the minority and I probably should keep my mouth shut, but it's how I feel so I'll be the odd man out and take the heat as a result.

cheers

john

Ruth is a small, one person business and someone took advantage of her. Besides turning, selling bottle stoppers is her only income. She is not a wealthy corporation. She is just a person trying to make it in this world. We should be proud of that one of our own is living the dream of earning a living in turning.

Sadly, here in the states it can cost more in legal fees than what Ruth can hope to recover from someone who stole her design.

This is not internet lynching, this is the turning community informing one another to what has transpired. By letting us know what has happened, we can judge for ourselves which course of action we wish to take.

I am grateful Barbara has brought this to our attention and glad this topic has spread around the turning forums.

Because, we are her peers, I urge everyone to support Ruth. I know I will.
 
Ruth is a small, one person business and someone took advantage of her. Besides turning, selling bottle stoppers is her only income. She is not a wealthy corporation. She is just a person trying to make it in this world. We should be proud of that one of our own is living the dream of earning a living in turning.

Sadly, here in the states it can cost more in legal fees than what Ruth can hope to recover from someone who stole her design.

This is not internet lynching, this is the turning community informing one another to what has transpired. By letting us know what has happened, we can judge for ourselves which course of action we wish to take.

I am grateful Barbara has brought this to our attention and glad this topic has spread around the turning forums.


Because, we are her peers, I urge everyone to support Ruth. I know I will.

Thank you Ron. That is exactly why I posted this information. Since a lot of us buy stoppers, I felt as if it was important information to know as consumers.

Part of the apparent misunderstanding here comes partially from people not reading the whole post and partially from jumping to conclusions that are incorrect. Also, for some reason even though it was stated it in the original post that Fontaine had been advised some seem to think this guy has not been advised of the consequences of his illegal acts.

I am going to fill you in on some of the additional facts since some seem to think Ruth is out to shut this guy down, sue him, etc. It is hardly a witch hunt.

Fontaine ordered from her 18 mo. ago, his website came up about a year ago, the first guy who got a shipment used them before she got to ask him to save the packaging. He got a friend to order. Then she asked a friend in NJ to order and so now she had 2 packages he shipped. I did not post until after everything happened, the USPS has one of the packages (since he used them, they are involved, too) and the other will go to Customs. There will be no litigation, no courts, no suing, no looking for money. They (Patent holders) are going after him to stop him from selling and shipping to the US........that's all.
 
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I also have met Ruth at the turning symposium we had in CT a few years ago & I will only purchase them from her. She bent over backward to answer my questions. Also she is a turner & I would rather support a fellow turner who is also a business owner.
 
Since this thread is here, whether I like it or not, I'll pitch in a couple thoughts.
Does anyone here actually know what a patent violation is, or what legally constitutes one?
Is making an item similar to another a patent violation?
Does anyone here actually know if the Canadian stoppers are perfectly identical to the patent ones? Or, possibly, are they just similar to them and not really illegal copies?
If making something similar to a patent item is a violation, how is it that there are many so-called 'knock-offs' of tools (and other items) on the market?
Have I violated any patents with my 'poor mans roughing tool'?
http://familywoodworking.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11680
It is similar to something known as a C1a but is it a patent violation?
Personally, I believe this whole discussion is pointless. It strikes me as being born of hurt feelings and a perceived insult to Ruth Niles. Nothing more and not even worth talking about.
 
Since this thread is here, whether I like it or not, I'll pitch in a couple thoughts.
Does anyone here actually know what a patent violation is, or what legally constitutes one?
Is making an item similar to another a patent violation?
Does anyone here actually know if the Canadian stoppers are perfectly identical to the patent ones? Or, possibly, are they just similar to them and not really illegal copies?
If making something similar to a patent item is a violation, how is it that there are many so-called 'knock-offs' of tools (and other items) on the market?
Have I violated any patents with my 'poor mans roughing tool'?
http://familywoodworking.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11680
It is similar to something known as a C1a but is it a patent violation?
Personally, I believe this whole discussion is pointless. It strikes me as being born of hurt feelings and a perceived insult to Ruth Niles. Nothing more and not even worth talking about.

Give me a break Frank.
I've known you for close to 6 years now, becoming a moderator has not changed my opinion of you. Your statements today just solidify what I always thought.

Frank, if you designed a product and that product was well received by the turning community and someone "pointlessly" stole it from you, you would be the first to cry over your grizzly.

My apologies Vaughn
 
Frank, if you designed a product and that product was well received by the turning community and someone "pointlessly" stole it from you, you would be the first to cry over your grizzly.

Ron,

I think that the point of my post and probably Franks has been missed. I certainly don't, and I'm pretty sure that Frank also doesn't condone thievery of any kind. Neither of us has advocated for either party. Both of us have advocated that due process be followed. Nothing else has been said. I am suggesting that we follow evidence and law rather than emotion.

Just a thought here (a question, not a statement).....what happens if the authorities follow this up (as they should) and find that no fraud, criminal act or violations were committed? Will we hear about it? Is it even possible that maybe, just maybe, there's been a mistake made somewhere?

Just some thoughts....

cheers

John

Edit: apologies to Frank for using your name in this post
 
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