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Hand planing face frames

larry merlau said:
well allen you have feel to the incureable disease,,shame on bill and paul for gettin you expozed:D:rofl: now i need the link to there store.. allen goes there i quess i had better go look. //paul whats your choice for a scraper plane..the 112
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I guess I'll have to let Allen turn something at my shop if he visits. May as well set him down two slippery slopes at once! :rofl:

Nice haul! Best of luck learning everything - you'll be teaching me how to use a handplane when you finally get here!
 
I dont think so, most of these guys here have probably forgotten more than I might ever learn.
I just wanna have some experience with a hand plane, since its played an important part of woodworking.
I prefer power tools, but playing with some hand tools is fun. Useful, Im not sure, at least not now, but Ill see how far I get.
 
larry merlau said:
//paul whats your choice for a scraper plane..the 112
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Funny you should ask. I have an off brand 112 that's been a complete pain in the kiester. I think the design is good (Stanley copy) - mine's just badly made. So, after a lot of fairly radical surgery trying to get it tuned and able to hold adjustment, i'm throwing in the towel. Parts keep cracking and i'm tired of brazing it back together.

I had been looking around for a while now and got a little money together to replace it. I want something that will do large flat panels, so i came up with 4 viable options.
1) Vintage Stanley 112 - a good user - a few flaws would help keep it affordable as long as they didn't effect performance. They're not that common and i wasn't able to find one that suited my needs.
2) Lie Nielsen 112 - Well made, fine materials - eliminated from the running because it is the most expensive option
3) Veritas scraping plane - I really like the Veritas planes i have and this one as well. It has advancements over the old Stanley model that improve fit and finish, function, and ergonomics. The price seems fair as well. I came very close to buying this plane and would recommend anyone look it over.
4) Hamler scraping insert - I came across a short artical on this insert you use to replace the frog on a typical Stanley 2-3/8" bench plane (#4-1/2, #5-1/2, #6, #7, or #8). It lacks the camber adjustment that the Veritas has, but allows you the long registration surface and added mass of the fore and jointer plane bodies. I happen to have an old #6 body with a broken frog, so it seemed a good option. The craftsmanship is excellent, and it has the springed angle adjustment, one of those slap-your-forehead-why-did-nobody-think-of-this-before ideas. So, i ordered the Hamler insert. I won't have it in hand for a few months, but am looking forward to it.

They're all good tools, but really only worth it if you're going to be doing a lot of glued up panel work. The most versatile scrapers are the card scrapers or even a Stanley #80. I am getting a new scraping plane, but i'm sure i won't wind up using it more than my card scrapers.

Paul Hubbman
 
so seein as how, you got allen hooked:D could you make a simple list of the main 5 planes one wouldloo for in there arsenal??? i read an article along time back on it and remeber part of it, but part dont cut it:dunno: thansk for the reply paul H:thumb:
 
larry merlau said:
so seein as how, you got allen hooked:D could you make a simple list of the main 5 planes one wouldloo for in there arsenal??? i read an article along time back on it and remeber part of it, but part dont cut it:dunno: thansk for the reply paul H:thumb:
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I am going to do something different. I am going to pick some planes for power uses that don't really want to get into this prepping by hand "stuff". You know, the ones that say that is what my jointer, planer and sander is for, but will acknowledge that sometimes they come across some need that power tools alone don't do well.

First is an Edge Plane. This is Lie Nielsen's version, but with all the planes I will show others including Lee Valley, Stanley (used) all make them.
This is great plane for someone that wants to just take a hair off a board edge and keep it square to the face and do not feel they have the skill to run a jointer plane down the edge.


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This next one is similar but would be used to slightly enlarge a dado or rabbet. Again to very finely make an adjustment. This is called a side rabbet plane.
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Next is a shoulder plane which has many uses like cleaning up tenons or even rabbets.

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Last I would add a block plane. Very easy to adjust and great for cleaning up pegged joints, screw plugs, dovetails and also is good for chambering edges.

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You might want to subsitute a rabbet block plane instead of a the adjustable mouth low angle block plane shown above. It would allow you to clean up tight to an edge.

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Before the other hand tool users start throwing rocks at my suggestions, again this list is for power tool users who can not see themselves wanting to use bench planes.
 
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Bill Satko said:
I am going to do something different. I am going to pick some planes for power uses that don't really want to get into this prepping by hand "stuff".
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thanks bill for the added input,, i go the last two under control.. but the edge plane is a slick litle rascal..i have so far just been using my stanley 140 or a no.60 1/2 block.. on long edges i use a 4 or 5 smoother i think that is the right term. no here is aquestion fer ya.. i have couple old stanley's 192's i think and they are rabbet planes correct what makes them differnt from your shoulder plane pic.. other than yours are LN's:)

also either you or allen got alink to the guy that you sent allen too?
 
allen levine said:
whats the difference betweena smoother or a block plane? Looks pretty similar to me
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Actually Allen I think there are a lot of differences. I will make a pass at what I think they are. The most obvious one is size, although you can get bench planes (No. 1 Bench Plane) that rival the small size of a block plane. The block plane is made to fit in one hand, built to be carried and used away from the bench. One thing they do to keep the size small and the blade from sticking up in the air like a bench plane is turn the blade upside down (compared to a bench plane) so the bevel faces up. The bed angle of the standard block is 20 degrees (compared with a bench planes 45 degree) that combined with the standard blade angle (for planes) of 25 degrees equals the same cutting angle of a bench plane. So you end up with the same cutting angle of a bench plane but with a lower profile.

The cutting angles that I mentioned above are for a standard block which is best for cutting long grain, the same that bench planes are good at. There is a low angle block plane that is not so good at cutting long grain, but is very good at cutting end grain. They do that by having a lower bed angle of about 12 degrees. The overall cutting angle is now 37 degrees.

So really I should amend my recommendation above to add both a standard block plane and a low angle block plane.

The block planes also do not have the complex adjusters that a bench plane has, nor an iron cap. Less complex also means it can remain small.

All of this is my understanding of the differences. I am really interested to fine out if my perceptions match up with others of more experience or better knowledge.
 
larry merlau said:
so seein as how, you got allen hooked:D could you make a simple list of the main 5 planes one wouldloo for in there arsenal??? :
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I'd go with these as the basics, mostly because they're all used for a range of tasks (no specialty planes here), and i wind up reaching for them most often for general furniture / cabinetry type of work. I'm no expert, and woodworking is a hobby for me - no production pressures here. Given that, i find that these planes do tasks very well and often quicker than a machine could do the same if you include set up time.

1) the smoother plane - good for rough work or final surface preparation taking whisper thin shavings. Usually a #3 or #4.
2) a low angle block plane with an adjustable throat. - great for end grain and one handed work easing corners, etc.
3) a rabbet/fillester plane. I've got an old Stanley #78 - not the greatest example of quality workmanship, but a very versatile workhorse once tuned up. Great at quickly trueing up rabbets and fillesters, but also useful as a panel plane in a pinch, working right up to the corners. I have also used mine for tweaking tennon shoulders and cheeks.

I'm lucky to have a #140 (brought back to life by our own Travis Johnson) that i use quite a bit. It's not on my "essentials" list because it overlaps tasks with other planes and it's scarcity makes it more pricey than the other common planes. A #140 could substitute for both numbers 2 and 3. The old Stanley is nice, but scarce. The newer Lie Nielsen version has some improvements including low angle, a nicker, and a fence. If i were to have only two planes, they would be a #4 smoother and a #140 block.

I think the rest depend on what types of woodworking you do. I use my #5 jack plane quite a bit for general work. The longer body comes in handy. I also have a second smoother that i have set up for rough work. I keep another dedicated for fine work. For hand jointery, you'll probably want a shoulder plane. A standard angle block is great on a job site for a wide range of tasks - the standard angle is less likely than the low angle to tear out face grain.

Some would argue a #6 or #7 would be on their essentials list - maybe even a scrub plane for roughing stock flat.

A plane is really just a jig holding a blade a certain way. A lot of planing tasks can be done with a good sharp chisel or a simple card scraper. Allen bought a good set of chisels with the smoother. A good set of card scrapers might be next on his list with a decent block plane.

paulh
 
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