Got The SawStop >> Modification Has Begun! <<

Stuart Ablett

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Tokyo Japan
I'm going to give the OK for the SawStop to be shipped from Canada, should take 2 to 3 weeks to get here and clear customs.

Since I've finished moving the jointer and installing the SCMS station, I've now got space for the saw to go :thumb:

new_saw_layout1.jpg
There you can see the basic layout, the table (with the extension on it) is the same size as the saw will be, with both extension wings attached, as well as the 52" rails and the extension table, to the right. I'm going to add a 12 wide bench of sorts to the back edge of the saw, for one thing, I need somewhere to mount my woodworking vice :eek: and I also figure the extra width will not hurt things. I do have the extra space, I have nearly 4 feet of walking around space on both sides of the bench, as pictured, that is more than I've had for a VERY long time, so making that space 6" less on either side will not be a big deal.

next up, you can see the Phoenix bandsaw at the end of that table, I'm not sure it will go there, but it "Could" go there. I've seen a number of guys who have their bandsaws in the middle of the workshop, and it seems to work well. :dunno: or, I could make the bench extend that way about two feet for more bench space :huh:

one thing is very clear, this saw is going to dominate the workshop :D

new_saw_layout3.jpg
Another view

new_saw_layout2.jpg
Looking towards the North end of the shop, you can see a bunch of stuff that I've yet to get out of the Dungeon, the DeWalt BT744 will go on Yahoo auction, and the mini DC I got will go up for auction as well. The router table will be built into the SawStop, maybe not right away, but at some point.

I've got to figure out the logistics of getting the saw from the street to the hatch, and then down the hatch :D

The saw, with the cabinet, and just the table top, no extension wings is 24" wide by 30" deep (61cm x 76cm). The hatch, fully open is 47" x 47" (120cm x 120 cm) Thus the main unit should go down in one piece into the Dungeon.

I'm thinking of just buying a couple of large casters and making a large cart for the saw, to get it from the curbside to the hatch, or I might use some pvc pipe, and roll it on the pipes :dunno:

I asked SawStop about the power issues, the voltage I will be using is 200V and the Hertz is 50, this is the initial reply I got.......


The 208v machine will most likely run at 200v, but the lower voltage will cause the motor to run at a higher current and hotter temperatures. A step up converter might help, but we don't have much experience with these and we don't guarantee any results. In any case, the warranty will be void even with a converter.

The lower frequency (50hz rather than 60hz) will cause the motor to run 17% slower, which means the blade will not spin at the optimum speed for cutting wood. This is also true for our Japanese models, but we compensate by using a larger pulley on the motor. The larger motor pulley causes the blade to spin at the correct speed. You can replace the US pulley with a Japanese pulley if you want. Our p/n for the larger pulley is CB106 003. Our dealer in Japan, Fukumoto, should have them.

I am not sure if the saw is already on its way to you, but the ideal solution here would be to purchase one of our Japanese models from Fukumoto as opposed to importing a machine designed for United States electrical configurations. These machines are built specifically to work with the Japanese voltage system.
That is all fine and dandy, but Fukumoto wants about $11,000 US for the saw, delivered to my house. :eek: yes you read that right, $11,000 US Dollars :doh:

The price I paid for the saw is $4,600, plus another $700 for the shipping etc, so $5300 CANADIAN or about $4200 US, gee, I think I'll be importing one :D

Once this was explained to the SawStop guys, they have been very helpful.

It looks as if I'll not have to spend the extra money on a converter, I'll just get a larger pulley for the saw, and call it good, after all, 200 is only 4% less than 208, right? I can most likely get a fairly simple step up converter that will step from 200V to say 220V for not a lot of money, maybe I will get that, but at least I'll not have to worry about a step up converter that also changes the Hertz, those are big bucks.

So, what do you all think of the idea of the Bandsaw in the middle of the shop? I'd have to put the built in router table on the other end of the SawStop, I might even have to shift the rails to the left a foot or so :huh:

Cheers!
 
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Stu, If you can borrow a pallet jack, that would work for moving the saw on the street. That's how we moved the two we installed in the shop I work at.
Looks like the band saw is in as good of position as any, it might get in the way if you were cutting sheet goods, but I doubt if you will be doing much of that in your dungeon.
 
Good idea, a pallet jack would be nice, or even a forklift :thumb:

One of my customer's parents run a paper recycle place, just up the street, they have both, pallet jacks and a fork lift, they are nice folks, so I think I'll go and ask them one day if I can borrow the pallet jack at the very least.

Thanks Barry :D
 
Stu,
What is the norm for delivery drivers in Japan? Over here in the states they generally are more than happy to assist in getting larger items to the garage from the tail of the truck, and generally they have a pallet jack onboard as well, after all they probably have to move several items around on the truck during the day, not to mention onto commercial customers' dock space. Just my .02c of course. Can't wait to see the new saw in place, your re-organization is amazing as always. You've got me thinking that my chopsaw stand is going away one of these days... to hang on the wall instead of sitting on the floor. Can you say cantilever? Of course you can!
 
try the bandsaw in the middle......if you don`t like it fix it later once you`re used to working with the tablesaw.
 
try the bandsaw in the middle......if you don`t like it fix it later once you`re used to working with the tablesaw.

Certainly that is the idea Tod, I was just wondering if there are any major problems with putting a bandsaw in the middle of the shop, ones I could not foresee, I think it is a natural spot for a bandsaw, much like a chop saw goes well on a wall.

Cheers!
 
Stu,
What is the norm for delivery drivers in Japan? Over here in the states they generally are more than happy to assist in getting larger items to the garage from the tail of the truck, and generally they have a pallet jack onboard as well, after all they probably have to move several items around on the truck during the day, not to mention onto commercial customers' dock space. Just my .02c of course.

Ned, I'd say it is VERY rare for this kind of equipment to be delivered to a residence. When I had the last pallet of clamps delivered, the driver opened the door of the truck, and pointed to the stack of clamps on the pallet and basically said "There ya be, hurry up" :rolleyes:

he stood there while my two daughters and I unloaded the truck, he did not take anything off the truck but the delivery slip, that I had to sign, and complained loudly when I did not want the pallet that the clamps came on. I surely did not want the darn pallet, he insisted that I had to take it, but I pointed out to him that the order said "50 boxes of F-clamps" and did not mention the pallet" :D

the guy before that was cool, he helped me unload the truck, and had no problem keeping the pallet, but neither of them had a pallet jack, or a lift gate.

If the truck has a lift gate, and a pallet jack, I'd pay extra for that, no problem, I'll have to negotiate terms with the delivery company I guess.

Ned Bulken said:
Can't wait to see the new saw in place, your re-organization is amazing as always. You've got me thinking that my chopsaw stand is going away one of these days... to hang on the wall instead of sitting on the floor. Can you say cantilever? Of course you can!

I really like the set up of the jointer under the Chopsaw station and a wood rack over it, just a good use of space for me. I guess cabinets could also go over a chop saw station too.

Cheers!
 
Stu,

I'm not sure I would have thought of it, but I actually think the BS in the middle should work quite nicely for you. And like Tod said, just give it a try. You've already re-arranged the dungeon at least 4 times since I've known you on these forums... :wave:

For one thing, you seem to do a lot more lathe work these days, so the BS is almost more important than the TS for that. So put the BS where it works, and make the TS deal with it. :p

It's also a neat idea to put the vice on the backside of the TS (well, actually on the narrow extension table. In a small shop like that, you're definitely going to need that TS table for other tasks than just cutting.

Have you considered getting a sheet of 1/4" plywood or hardboard to lay over top of the TS station for a work surface? At the very least, get a big sheet to throw over it when you need to do glue ups or the like. You'll also therefore want to be sure that there is a good location for stashing the fence when you need a big flat surface.

I also note that the Phoenix is still bare naked. :eek: Didn't we have a poll about that a while back? :rofl::rofl: Still, since it's in the middle now, you can think about coordinating the colour with your TS. Looks like an all-black central area might be in the cards... :thumb:

How are you getting DC to the middle? Is there a hose across the floor? If you're going down from the ceiling, then you've already got the spot for that, right alongside the back of the Phoenix.

Great to see this unfold!
 
Certainly that is the idea Tod, I was just wondering if there are any major problems with putting a bandsaw in the middle of the shop, ones I could not foresee, I think it is a natural spot for a bandsaw, much like a chop saw goes well on a wall.

Cheers!
In the middle is where I placed mine >>HERE<< and I have no regrets. It allows me full access and has yet to 'get in the way' of normal operations. A plus is having it on wheels so I can always adjust for long stock etc. I don't think I'd ever place it back against tha wall again.:D
 
Stu,

I'm not sure I would have thought of it, but I actually think the BS in the middle should work quite nicely for you. And like Tod said, just give it a try. You've already re-arranged the dungeon at least 4 times since I've known you on these forums... :wave:

Not really true Art, I think that I've never actually stopped re-arranging the Dungeon....... :D :rofl::rofl:

Art Mulder said:
For one thing, you seem to do a lot more lathe work these days, so the BS is almost more important than the TS for that. So put the BS where it works, and make the TS deal with it. :p

It's also a neat idea to put the vice on the backside of the TS (well, actually on the narrow extension table. In a small shop like that, you're definitely going to need that TS table for other tasks than just cutting.
Yeah, I might actually make the 12" wide bench wrap around the end near the bandsaw 12" as well, just to give me room to put my bench dog holes :thumb:

Art Mulder said:
Have you considered getting a sheet of 1/4" plywood or hardboard to lay over top of the TS station for a work surface? At the very least, get a big sheet to throw over it when you need to do glue ups or the like.

Naw, I thought glue and paint were good for cast iron tops...... :eek:

Yes, I've thought of that, I'll have to buy a special 4x8 sheet of large plywood to cover it all :rolleyes:

Art Mulder said:
You'll also therefore want to be sure that there is a good location for stashing the fence when you need a big flat surface.
I think I'll make a spot for the fence under the left wing of the saw, should be some space there.

Art Mulder said:
I also note that the Phoenix is still bare naked. :eek: Didn't we have a poll about that a while back? :rofl::rofl: Still, since it's in the middle now, you can think about coordinating the colour with your TS. Looks like an all-black central area might be in the cards... :thumb:
Well, the color voted on was purple, I think, and I've yet to find any purple paint....... :rolleyes:

Art Mulder said:
How are you getting DC to the middle? Is there a hose across the floor? If you're going down from the ceiling, then you've already got the spot for that, right alongside the back of the Phoenix.

Down from the ceiling, there is a hose that fed the old TS and jointer, when not in use, I just hang it up near the ceiling again. I'll most likely make a branch that will extend to the Phoenix behind the SawStop, so the hose will feed both, with blast gates to isolate the on in use.

Art Mulder said:
Great to see this unfold!
You and me both Art! :D

In the middle is where I placed mine >>HERE<< and I have no regrets. It allows me full access and has yet to 'get in the way' of normal operations. A plus is having it on wheels so I can always adjust for long stock etc. I don't think I'd ever place it back against tha wall again.:D

Thanks Rennie, I figured as much, and I do have the Phoenix on wheels.

Cheers!
 
It looks as if I'll not have to spend the extra money on a converter, I'll just get a larger pulley for the saw, and call it good, after all, 200 is only 4% less than 208, right? I can most likely get a fairly simple step up converter that will step from 200V to say 220V for not a lot of money, maybe I will get that, but at least I'll not have to worry about a step up converter that also changes the Hertz, those are big bucks.

Stu,

Just thinking out loud here... Running the motor on reduced hz will cause it to run a bit warmer, coupled with the reduced current which also makes it run warmer, might create a problem. I say might, because you're really not going to stress a motor, especially a TS, in a hobby environment. The question I'd be more concerned about is; will the reduced voltage and hz going to play havoc with the electronics?

I'm in no way a expert, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn, but would a VFD possibly solve the problem? I know there's versions for your power type and it would easily convert to 60hz. That would get you closer to spec and might eliminate some problems???

Mike
 
Stu,

Just thinking out loud here... Running the motor on reduced hz will cause it to run a bit warmer, coupled with the reduced current which also makes it run warmer, might create a problem. I say might, because you're really not going to stress a motor, especially a TS, in a hobby environment. The question I'd be more concerned about is; will the reduced voltage and hz going to play havoc with the electronics?

I'm in no way a expert, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn, but would a VFD possibly solve the problem? I know there's versions for your power type and it would easily convert to 60hz. That would get you closer to spec and might eliminate some problems???

Mike

Good question Mike.

The guys at SawStop said the motor is designed to run on 50/60Hz, the only change they make on the 50Hz saw, which are for sale here in Japan, for the industrial market, is to change the one pulley to a 17% larger pulley :dunno:

They never did mention the electronics, I'll double check with them, as that was my concern as well.

Cheers!
 
That is all fine and dandy, but Fukumoto wants about $11,000 US for the saw, delivered to my house. :eek: yes you read that right, $11,000 US Dollars :doh:

The price I paid for the saw is $4,600, plus another $700 for the shipping etc, so $5300 CANADIAN or about $4200 US, gee, I think I'll be importing one :D

Well, it looks like we know what price Stu places on safety! :rofl:

That is a ridiculous markup. Are these things specified by the Japanese OSHA equivalent now? I'm sure if they quote to you for $5K US you might've shelled out the extra cash just to have one done right.

Good luck with the hatch. By chance do you have some sort of come-along device above the hatch to safely, gently lower the thing down? It would be one of those really bad ironies of life if you got squished by the "safer saw" during installation.
 
My BS is just off center in the shop. It is at the end of the TS right extension. I have about 2' to walk between them. About 4' or so behind the bandsaw to the wall.
The only thing I thought of as something to plan for was the DC hookup, but it sounds like you have that covered! Jim.
 
Good question Mike.

The guys at SawStop said the motor is designed to run on 50/60Hz, the only change they make on the 50Hz saw, which are for sale here in Japan, for the industrial market, is to change the one pulley to a 17% larger pulley :dunno:

They never did mention the electronics, I'll double check with them, as that was my concern as well.

Cheers!

Stu so much of what I wanted to contribute has already been said by the time I saw this post. I now am thinking of doing the same with my bandsaw.
Anyway as for the electronics, my bet is that the electronics will not be an issue at all. Here is why, electronics that are used in something like the blade dropping cartridge will be powered by DC. Direct current. To get that the high voltage 200 V will be stepped down and then passed through a rectifier. That will take any effect of the AC herz ( frequency issue out of it completely) then for the kind of precision they are needing in the detection circuit they will have put a pretty stable solid state regulator on the end of the regulator. That will ensure that the DC voltage stays very smooth and within the spec. Essentially the electronics will also be isolated propably by isolation transformers from the AC for safety reasons and for the detection to work. You dont want false triggers caused by mains interference and you dont want electrification of the operator just before the blade drop cartridge triggers when his/her finger touches the blade. So when you ask them be armed with this knowledge. When something like a sausage or human hand touches that blade they are forming a capacitor to ground. It is my opinion that they are detecting this change in capacitance very precisely since wet wood would theoretically do the same sort of thing except the dilectric of wood would have a different characteristic to that of flesh.

Just a note you mentioned buying a piece of 4x8 plywood to cover the top, can that fit through the entrance to the shop? I remeber seeing 47" somewhere when you were looking at the saw size. But I guess the diaginonal will be bigger.

Great post and wish you all the best and luck with the transportation to Japan.
 
I got e-mail back from SawStop about the electronics.......

The saw should work fine with 50 hz power

They also told me that the saw ships with one wing attached, and the weight of the saw, minus pallet etc, is 530lbs, and one wing weighs 45lbs, so the saw, going down the hatch will be a 485lbs, or 220kg.

I got a suggestion to put the saw at 90 degrees to what I was planning, I took a stab at this today............


sideways_layout_left.jpg siedways_layout_main.jpg sideways_layout_right.jpg

As you can see, this orientation, could work. The size of the table there is 71", the saw, with the shorter rails is 69 1/4", now I've ordered the longer rails, with which the saw would be 85" wide. I'm really thinking of putting the saw in this orientation, and cutting down the rails to fit, in fact, I might cut them down a fair bit, and then work on making a quick connect set up for them. I've asked to have the saw shipped, then today I sent an e-mail to my buddy to see if he can get the mobility base in time for it to be shipped with the saw, this would really make things work well, as I could easily roll the saw to the left to use the longer rails, if needed, or if I need some more room to use the jointer, for example. Orientating the saw in this way sure opens up a LOT more space in the Dungeon too, but now I'm not sure where the Phoenix will end up :D

Cheers!
 
Stu

Just looking at those pictures, a thought came to mind. That concrete floor must be murder on your feet when you are down there for some time. Given you are going to move the bench out for Saw Stop arrival is this not the ideal opportunity to put down a mini subfloor deck to ease the feet and improve the temp and working environment. remeber your legs as you get older. Its not so much now but I dont think you are getting a saw stop with a view to giving up woodworking soon. So the floor would be long term insurance.

I have a subfloor and it makes a huge difference to when I was in the basement.

Just a thought. Out of the question once you have Saw Stop down there.

By the way I see the mats you have but they are not that effective ask the people that work at the BORGS how well they work.
 
Rob, I'd LOVE to put a subfloor down, but it would have to be the whole floor or nothing. I've have to move subfloors to use things like my jointer etc, major pain.

What did you use for a subfloor?

How did you take care of the uneven floor problem, my floors are really bad..... :dunno:

I am open to the idea for sure, like I said, I'd LOVE to get a subfloor....but I have only a few weeks until the SawStop arrives.

Cheers!
 
... and if Stu puts in a subfloor then he'd have to raise his SCMS station, since there isn't that much clearance above the jointer.:(

Ouch. Maybe next year when his leg is really 110% healed... ;)
 
I got e-mail back from SawStop about the electronics.......



They also told me that the saw ships with one wing attached, and the weight of the saw, minus pallet etc, is 530lbs, and one wing weighs 45lbs, so the saw, going down the hatch will be a 485lbs, or 220kg.

I got a suggestion to put the saw at 90 degrees to what I was planning, I took a stab at this today............


View attachment 28110 View attachment 28108 View attachment 28111

As you can see, this orientation, could work. The size of the table there is 71", the saw, with the shorter rails is 69 1/4", now I've ordered the longer rails, with which the saw would be 85" wide. I'm really thinking of putting the saw in this orientation, and cutting down the rails to fit, in fact, I might cut them down a fair bit, and then work on making a quick connect set up for them.
Cheers!

Stu how about sliding the rails to the left & leave enough rail to the right that you can cut the ends of a lower cabinet in one pass. I went & measured on my saw & 38" to the right of the blade for the end of the tube is just beyond the guide angle on my Biesemeyer style Grizzly fence giving me 36" to the right of the blade.
Once you've set this you can decide how much to trim off the left end.
 
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