copper vs. black iron for air

I had 1 1/2" pvc for main line and 1' pvc drops in my production shop ONLY because thats what was there and I was renting the building. I had the main line which was above the ceiling several feet blow up about 3 times and man was I glad there was something between me and the exploding pipe. It sounded like a jet fighter goin through the shop. It was fast and easy to repair though.

It actually took longer to go home and change my shorts than to repair.

I will never use PVC again as if anyone had happen to be in the wrong place when it went they would have been chewed up good

Jay

No matter which way you go Mark, you're going to really appreciate having drops for air conveniently located in your shop. I know I do! I used copper because. like you I had leftover pieces from other projects (and copper was relatively cheap then.).
Larry mentioned TP Tools - here's a diagram they have posted:
http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf
(Their site: http://www.tptools.com/ )

I was told "Always remember to go up before you go out." by one of the shop guys at work. That keeps moisture crud out of your tools. I made up all of my "drops" on the ground. Then it was a simple job to run pipe between them overhead.

Good luck!

Wes

I've heard that if you had to use PVC, that you should use Schedule 40 PVC, but I think I'd still be a little leary about using plastic.

Dan

Wes Bischel said:

No matter which way you go Mark, you're going to really appreciate having drops for air conveniently located in your shop. I know I do! I used copper because. like you I had leftover pieces from other projects (and copper was relatively cheap then.).
Larry mentioned TP Tools - here's a diagram they have posted:
http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf
(Their site: http://www.tptools.com/ )

I was told "Always remember to go up before you go out." by one of the shop guys at work. That keeps moisture crud out of your tools. I made up all of my "drops" on the ground. Then it was a simple job to run pipe between them overhead.

Good luck!

Wes

Click to expand...

hey wes you got a pic? of the drops you built?

Dan Mooney said:

I've heard that if you had to use PVC, that you should use Schedule 40 PVC, but I think I'd still be a little leary about using plastic.

Dan

Click to expand...

Mine was Schedule 40!!!! Didn't mater it still blew I think mainly because of age.

Jay

Another Question..

I will be putting in air lines in a couple months. Don't really have a preference to any particular system.

Has anybody had any experience with the garage -pak air piping system. Know it is more expensive, but really looks like a quick system to install and rearrange. I saw it advertised on one of the Garage TV shows. (www dot garage-pak dot com)

Was going to originally go with galv but will now be putting the line in a "protect" area along the wall that won't get hit or bump for the most part, so I was leaning to the copper route until I saw this stuff.

Thanks,

Rob

Larry,
Nothing special.




My shop isn't all that big (about 14' x18') so I only have the four drops. Two right next to each other - the one with the filter will eventually be for spray equipment - someday. (Oh, the filter is a Festo - closest I'll ever get to a Festool.)

Not sure if that is what you were looking for. They have worked fine so far.

Wes

Rob Damon said:

Has anybody had any experience with the garage -pak air piping system. Know it is more expensive, but really looks like a quick system to install and rearrange. I saw it advertised on one of the Garage TV shows. (www dot garage-pak dot com)

Click to expand...

Took a look at the web page. Nice looking stuff. I don't think I would buy it though. Too much money if you know how to sweat a few copper fittings. The big push I think is "it can be reconfigured". Well so can copper. Just cut it and change it. Might not be as pretty but I'm cheep!

Rob Damon said:

I will be putting in air lines in a couple months. Don't really have a preference to any particular system.

Has anybody had any experience with the garage -pak air piping system. Know it is more expensive, but really looks like a quick system to install and rearrange. I saw it advertised on one of the Garage TV shows. (www dot garage-pak dot com)

Was going to originally go with galv but will now be putting the line in a "protect" area along the wall that won't get hit or bump for the most part, so I was leaning to the copper route until I saw this stuff.

Thanks,

Rob

Click to expand...

Rob, I recall seeing comments on another forum that the Garage-Pak stuff was good, but real pricey. Looks like you already know about the pricey part. Another possible disadvantage I see is that you can't run down to the local hardware store for those last couple of fittings you forgot. Have you tried searching around the car mechanic and hotrod forums to see what those guys think? I learned a lot of opinions at www.hotrodders.com. (Like woodworking forums, most guys there have an opinion, and it's up to the reader to decide if the opinions are worth paying attention to.)

And BTW, it's OK to post links to other forums and commercial sites here. As long as someone's not obviously shilling for a company, it's all helpful to the members.

Being a lazy and cheap type, I plumbed my machine shop with 1" Schedule 40 PVC in 1979, and when I retired in 1997 it was still there and running fine. Note, that I did run a regulator on the compressor and limited the lines to 110 psi. About 30 disconnects were used around the shop, one at every machine.

When I moved into a new woodworking workshop in 1998, I merely ran the 1/4" id red rubber airlines all around the shop, with quick disconnects everwhere. As I remember the airline hose was a 250' roll from Grainger. Still working fine today. Regulator is set as 100 psi.

Tom the problem with using 1/4 ID hose is the line drop you get. You will not get your spray guns to work the way they should. The spray equipment co. say to never us 1/4" over 15' and when I had my shop I played with hose size and length a bit and they were right it made a big deferents in the way the guns worked when I went from 1/4" to 3/8" hose on a 20' line.

You can get by with it but you are cheating yourself with how you guns and sander etc. will work.

I wouldn't run anything for the main trunk line less than 1" and bigger would be better as it will act like an air pig. Then use smaller line for the drops.

Jay

Compressed air piping

I would caution everyone NOT to use PVC for your main air supply headers. Even if the piping has "180 PSI" on it , it's not safe. That is a rating for ambient temperature of 70 degrees and hydrostatic(water) and if you are close to a window or heat duct air expansion can easily exceed that internally. Compressed air is like a cannon when it explodes.
I spent 32 years in the pressure piping industry and 7 of that as a registered pressure piping inspector on power plants for a major Electric company. It just is not safe.

air piping again

As far as an argument of which is better material consider this.
Black pipe does rust, install dirt legs and blow them once in a while.
Galv. pipe will rust if the coating is dinged,also the coating inside will flake off at some point(that's why they don't use it in gas lines) Same as black pipe blow out the drips once in a while. Galv. pipe in air lines is usually used in corrosive atmospheres(chemical plants etc) outside and inside primarily for the rust factor.
Copper is the preferred choice in most industrial applications. Again unless you have a good air dryer ,blow it out at low points once in a while.
As far a joints,unless you are in a fire prone location, 95/5 solder will handle it. Sil-fos is only for fire safety issues that don't apply to most home shops.Remember, clean pipe and fittings is the key to a good soldering job.
Pipe dope, take your pick. Some places I have been did not want teflon joints(flecked off and plugged instrumentation) other places wanted only teflon and still others wanted both teflon and pipe dope. Stick with a name brand (rectorseal,oatey etc).

Black pipe!

I worked around aircraft for nearly 20 years, and every hangar I ever worked in used black pipe for the air system. I never saw - or heard of - a failure.

One notable thing - every drop had a water trap and 'blowout' valve. We dumped them frequently - particularly in cold climates where condensation was more rampant.

When I worked as a deisel tech are shop had 1" black pipe run all over the place. That pipe at the time was 30 years old and is still working fine after nearly 40 years of hard abuse. If you are worried about dirt, you should have a filter at you fitting. We had these at every spot that a hose plugged in. Also you can put a short peice(about6") under the connector to catch the water.

Al killian said:

... Also you can put a short piece(about6") under the connector to catch the water.

Click to expand...

Al,
That's what I meant by 'water trap.' A tee fitting, with a six inch nipple and valve going down, and the air outlet coming out the side of the tee is all it is. Condensation collects in the nipple, and opening the valve blows it out. Simple, and very effective.