Maple question?

larry merlau

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Location
Delton, Michigan
ok Frank Fusco prompted this question... i know that in my parts we have both soft and hard maple,, the soft maple is SOFT yet harder than pine. the HARD is hard and i mean real hard. yu can dent soft maple with thumb nail but you gonna break your nail on hard maple.. our hard maple is basically a sugar maple. so for you research types,, what species are rated as hard and what are soft...??? frank has alot arkansas maple and he says his is hard.. we have silver maple and its soft. so how do you distingush it in boards and tree form?
 
Well I have done some research for you guys

I have a book bought at Lee Valley written By Bruce Hoadley that helps with the identification and naming of wood. Hardwood as well as softwood.
Here is a link if you are interested it’s a really great book to be able to identify wood when you have no bark, no leaves.

Identifying Wood - Lee Valley Tools

Anyway Larry according to the book the following are classified as hardwoods

. All the wood below are part of the Acer family.(scientific name)

Wood Type
Specific Gravity
Field Maple
Unknown
Bigleaf Maple
.48
Boxelder
.46
Black Maple
.57
Norway Maple
Unknown
Sycamore
.56
Red Maple
.54
Silver Maple
.47
Sugar Maple
.63


The next item that comes up of relevance is the aspect of specific gravity which it is said is related to the hardness of wood. The higher the specific gravity the harder the wood.

So looking at the table above,( well there was one there in my original document) the Sugar Maple is definitely the harder of the two when you compare it to Silver Maple.

There is no listing in the book of Arkansas Maple.

The book has a method for determining the type of wood by cutting the wood across the grain and examining the end grain under a very strong magnifying glass. What you see is the early wood late wood structure that we normally see as annual rings. Between these rings of early and late wood are the cells and fibers. By looking closely at the pore structure (each wood has a different density and structure along with color and size of pore you can clearly determine the type of wood. One can see rays and pores and late wood and early wood lines. In maple the ray sizes are approximately the same diameter as the pores.
Soft Maple has a grayish cast which will often distinguish it from the creamy white to light reddish brown of hard maple.

Specific gravity for the hard maple group ranges from .57 thru .63

Soft Maple group ranges from .46 thru .54
The most common soft maple group is red other soft maples include silver maple and box elder. It does say there are many species within a group however some cannot be identified with certainty.
Bigleaf Maple has heartwood that has a pinkish cast and slightly larger pores than sugar maple. Field Maple and Norway Maple are European and would both be classified as soft maples. Sycamore in England resembles hard maple.

This whole thing gets more complicated if one dissects the wood lengthwise and looks at the rays under a microscope. Then you can definitely tell if its hard or soft maple by examining the rays in the cell and tube structure.

Hope this helps you guys.

You can also read some more info on this site:
http://www.hardwoodinfo.com/species_guide/display_species.asp?species=softmaple

The book I have has coloured pictures in of the cell structure which I have used to identify and actual species from before. Quite fun actually.
All you need is loupe and a sliver of the end grain and good light. :thumb:
 
Hey Larry, In the general sense, deciduous trees are hardwoods and conifers are softwoods. Of course as Rob was so kind to point out hardness is relative. Another factor with hardness is the local where the trees grow. Guitar makers prefer swamp ash for electric guitar bodies because it has different properties than regular ash. I knew a guy who was looking for ash that grew in annually flooded woods for this reason. I know that certain areas of the country have a lot of silicates in the soil that are drawn up into the wood as the tree grows. I understand it is a pain to sawmill because it dulls the blades quickly.

Hardness in maples is affected by the orientation to the sun. North facing maples (hillside) will have closer growth rings and is rather hard. Box Elder (acer negundo) is really soft and generally considered a pest except for us turners who know it can have awesome figure and color.(I had to add this little turning point for your enjoyment):D:D
 
I know in my area we have a lot of Silver leaf Maple and some red leaf both are soft maples. You can really tell the deferents between the two when you plane and machine the wood (red leaf works a lot better as it is a little harder) I have had some red leaf that was easy to mix up with Rock Hard Maple. I alway tried to get Red Leaf when I ordered and usually paid a little more for it but it was worth the extra cost.

Jay
 
Mr Wizard, the Janka Scale please . . . http://mimi.com/mra/green/janka.pdf

Or for those who don't like reading . . . (sorry, no soft maple listed)

janka-scale.jpg

But wait, there's more:

"Hard maple" is the common term for two species of maple trees: Sugar Maple (Acer saccharum) and
Black Maple (Acer nigrum). Hard maple is commonly used in the manufacture of flooring, furniture,
cabinets, billiard cues, and other finished wood products. "Soft maple" is the common term for four
species of maple trees: Silver maple (Acer saccharinum), Red maple (Acer rebrum), Boxelder (Acer
negundo), and Bigleaf maple (Acer macrophyllum)."
 
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I know in my area we have a lot of Silver leaf Maple and some red leaf both are soft maples. You can really tell the deferents between the two when you plane and machine the wood (red leaf works a lot better as it is a little harder) I have had some red leaf that was easy to mix up with Rock Hard Maple. I alway tried to get Red Leaf when I ordered and usually paid a little more for it but it was worth the extra cost.

Jay

Jay, I'll bring a chunk next time I'm your way.
Comparing with Rob's description, I see no grayish cast in the end grain. There might be some reddish coloration. A sanded piece does show nice figure and a certain chatoyance, even without being wet or finished. And, it is really hard-hard. I'm curious, but don't care that much, it is nice wood and great to work with.
 
Jay, I'll bring a chunk next time I'm your way.
Comparing with Rob's description, I see no grayish cast in the end grain. There might be some reddish coloration. A sanded piece does show nice figure and a certain chatoyance, even without being wet or finished. And, it is really hard-hard. I'm curious, but don't care that much, it is nice wood and great to work with.

Sounds good Frank and look forward to another visit. :wave:
Jay
 
Hey Frank, just had a thought here if you are near Larry or wish to mail a small piece of that wood to Larry, he can bring it with him when he comes over to my place and we can have a go at identifying it from the book I have. I dont have an electron microscope so there will be no pictures except of the two of us indulging in some malt drink of sorts while trying to figure it out.:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
A simple answer

Black and Sugar maples are considered the Hard Maples. Silver, Norway (an invasive weed !) Red, etc. are all considered Soft Maples. Just as Glenn said.

I general most "figured" maple, I think around 80%. is soft maple. Hard maple is usually sold as such since they can get more $ for it, especially if it's figured.
 
Another help in identification would be to post a picture of the suspect trees leaf. I'm not familiar with the so-called Arkansas maple. If the trees in question grow 50-60 ft. tall vs 80 ft. or better, i would suspect the tree to be a variant of the red maple. Sugar maples around here grow 80 to 120 ft. tall. Reds are generally shorter and more limby with an even full crown. Of course there are differences depending on were the tree grows relative to other trees and oreintation to the sun. Red maple can be real hard.
 
Hey Frank, just had a thought here if you are near Larry or wish to mail a small piece of that wood to Larry, he can bring it with him when he comes over to my place and we can have a go at identifying it from the book I have. I dont have an electron microscope so there will be no pictures except of the two of us indulging in some malt drink of sorts while trying to figure it out.:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Sounds good. Larry, address? PM me.
 
Another help in identification would be to post a picture of the suspect trees leaf. I'm not familiar with the so-called Arkansas maple. If the trees in question grow 50-60 ft. tall vs 80 ft. or better, i would suspect the tree to be a variant of the red maple. Sugar maples around here grow 80 to 120 ft. tall. Reds are generally shorter and more limby with an even full crown. Of course there are differences depending on were the tree grows relative to other trees and oreintation to the sun. Red maple can be real hard.

I just tagged it 'Arkansas' maple since it grew here. I was given slabs, no leaves.
 
I planed a bunch of short boards I had, all beech and maple.
Im having a tough time figuring out which is which, although I believe the beech is a bit more white. The maple seems to have s lighter greyer tint. or at least I think.
 
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