Dining chairs-mahogany(and sapele), the work is slow going,

allen levine

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I tossed around the idea of posting anything else about the chairs Im building.
Its easy for the masters here to post amazing pieces of furniture and other woodcrafts, but its not easy for people like me with limited abilities, and limited knowledge to post their bloopers.
I knew the challenges and obstacles before I started, pooled and extracted as much advice and answers as I could from the good spirited people of this site, and decided to undertake this project.
If at anytime I came to a complete standstill, I figured Id remind myself its only a hobby, this isnt going to be some life altering event. Its only 6 chairs.
6 LOUSY CHAIRS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry about the nonsense, but to say Im frustrated, is an enormous understatement.
Its been a frustrating month, decompensated old fourth nerve palsey.
Sounds bad,(it isnt) but I cant blame my lack of skill on a bad right eye.

ONto the project:

I listened to Toni, decided to spend the extra time, Im in no rush, to do one chair first. I had cut all the front legs and rear legs already, rough cutting, and today I planed them all to same thickness, using Toms advice about doing them all at once and setting the final thickness so they all are same.
Worked out fine, selected some wood, jointed and planed it to right thickness for other parts, cut parts for one chair, and then the frustrations mounted.

I placed the first rear leg on the particle board template, using Rhino 2 sided tape, lining the entire template with tape, and placed the first leg on it.
Hand held dewalt router and 1.5 inch flush trim bit, not anywhere as easy as it sounds to hold that router on a 2 inch wide leg, but the first leg came out beautiful. Uh........the rhino tape, well, I spent 45 minutes rubbing it off first leg.
I then placed alot less rhino tape on the first leg I cut, and attached a second leg to it to get a nice match.
I made one slight wrong move, and the router tipped top over first, and I dug out a 1/2 groove 1.5 inches from the top of the leg. I believe I shifted my grip and when I used a bit more force, I tilted the router off,(or the two legs shifted a bit) and thats all she wrote.
I ruined the leg, and I dont have any extra thick stock, unless I either make 5 chairs or glue up, which I didnt want to.
I called in my wife, explained the 39.5 inches height, could be taken down to 38.25 inches, and it would be close to a high back chair, make one shorter, 5 taller, but I decided I will cut them all down one inch, it wont be a disaster, and I wont waste a leg.
I took a break, I was out there all day, and when I got up to leave, I hit a piece of wood I had on the table, and the second leg I finished, shot off the table, and landed on end, and yes, it cracked about 2 inches down from top.
So one leg was routed poorly, and the second perfect leg was now cracked.
I didnt throw anything, I reminded myself about my blood pressure, and said, hey, its only my hobby.
 
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I didnt take the break, I set the legs up side by side and gave them a bit of a light sanding, to get two perfectly matched legs, cutting down the length of both to 38.25 inches. If the final chair looks too short, I wont cut anymore down, just make five chairs, and have one dwarf chair till I get my hands on some thick stock.

Can I gently pull apart the cracked leg and squeeze some glue in there?(its not a very deep crack)

Thats where I left it all today, didnt want to run into any more boo boos.

Its not easy to show my mistakes, really show my limitations, but Ive shown all the other things Ive built, figured someone could always use a good laugh.

Heres some pics, the last one is the chair, without mortise and tenons joints cut, so it will be smaller overall, just wanted to see how it will look. I will roundover all edges eventually.(after joints are all cut and before assembly)

The only thing I did right, was make sure (as I read a final bit of advice a few days back on chair making) I cut all the parts together, the same lengths so it will all fit tight(ofcourse, I have to cut tenons)
 

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I really need to order clamps, really, really really, need more clamps.

Im open for any advice, constructive critisism, or just blast away, I will never give up on a project once I start it and make my first cuts.
 
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Hey Allen, even though you had some "Fopahs's" today, I don't think you did too bad, especially since it's your first chair (of this type). At least YOUR's LOOKS like a chair is supposed to look, (NOT like the first chair "I" tried to build).:D

One thing that helps me, is that especially when template routing narrow pieces, I try to do them on the router table which eliminates the "Tipping Router" problem. When I DO have to do template routing using a hand held router, I find that if I take another piece of wood the same thickness as the piece I'm going to route plus the thickness of the template, and lay it on the table parallel to the piece I'm going to rout with a space between the two pieces about twice the diameter of the router bit, it keeps the router dead flat with no chance of the router tipping and letting the bit dig into the work piece.

I think you're doing fine, so keep on plugging at them and they WILL get easier as you go. Heck, by the time you get all six made, you're going to be a Chair Building EXPERT.:thumb::D

As to the crack, I have sometimes been able to spread a crack enough to get glue in it, but I've had the best results when I thinned the glue a little bit with water just enough that it would FLOW all the way down into the crack. Others may have better solutions.
 
Allen, even if you don't have a router table you could mount your router under a plywood top built on a 2" framework to stiffen it up. Just take the base plate off and use it for a template to drill the holes to mount your router with and your good to go:thumb:.

You have nothing to be ashamed of because we have all done what you have done one time or another when we first started out. Keep up the good work because the sample chair looks terrific in the photo.:wave:
 
I was telling someone else, its foreign to me to use a router upside down, but I bought that little router table, seems solid enough, so Im going to actually secure it to my table and mount a router and give it some practice with the template and some 2x4s.
 
Just take your time and you will be allright. Maybe if you have some scrap 2 x 4's or some other scrap wood to try and practice with first to get the hang of routing with a template like that. Just watch where you put your fingers so you don't get caught in the bit.

As for the cracked leg, you can try to spread it a little with something thin and put some glue in and use the air nozzle to gently blow the glue deeper into the crack.
 
Ill go out shortly and do one of those glue tricks:D

I pulled the router table out before. Smart Ryobi, the holes are huge and align with the two ryobi routers I have. Unfortunately, the ryobis are 1/4 inch colets, and I wont even look for a 1/4 inch shaft with a 2 inch trim bit.
I prefer the thicker colet.. I did notice after taking apart all the bases I have with the dewalt(hey, I knew nothing about routers, now Id buy a nice PC)
one has two 5/64th holes. The ryobi table has something like 1/4 bolts holding the router on, and the holes on the table are fanned out larger, but if I get short 5/64th screws, and use a nut and washer on table side, I can secure the dewalt router into the ryobi table.
I cut down some screws I had, but ofcourse I ruined the thread, so it doesnt thread right, and I dont want to force it into the router base, so Ill pick up some short screws tomorrow.
As long as the router feels ultra secure, Ill give it a spin.
(I took all the routers apart, and ofcourse, the ryobis are larger diameter, so I couldnt fit into the ryobi bases. I didnt expect anything to work right anyway.)IM a victim of my own inferior tools. :(
 
glued up, Ill start cutting mortise and tenons tomorrow for the first chair.
Might finish it up with assembly by thursday if Im lucky.

Heading up to saratoga after work saturday for the show, so I wont get much done this weekend or early next week.
 
Hi Allen,

That's a better job than I could do right now were I to make a bent back chair. My little $40 used band saw most likely wouldn't even come close to making those cuts. ;)

A router table or equivalent will definitely help when working with narrower pieces. One of the projects I've worked on over the years is a simple cross for members of my church. The original that I base it off of is a simple set of 2x2s that have a poorly fitted half lap joint holding them together. I try to fancy up the ones I make a little bit by routing the top edges with a Roman Ogee bit. For years I'd done it with a hand held router and eventually got decent at it but invariably I'd let my attention wander for just a moment on one of them and put a decent gouge into the wood. Last November I got a Craftsman router table and just recently fitted a Freud router to it. I just finished a set of crosses and I was truly amazed not only at how much easier it was to route the edges but how much cleaner it looked overall. I'd usually get a slight little wobble when routing them. Not much, something that could be taken out with a little lite sanding. Using the router table coupled with using a 1/2" collet instead of the 1/4" gave me a nice smooth edge.
 
Hi Allen, I found your post somewhat concerning. So I thought about how to respond and decided I would only do so today.

First let me say I see myself in what you do. I have not tackled anywhere near the projects that you have but I have spent a great deal of time learning and trying out things. So here is my advice for what its worth.

1) Every pro seems to emphasize making sure you cut extra pieces in a project and have test pieces on hand. Test pieces for setup, test pieces for cuts and for finishes. Think about this as far as your legs are concerned.

2) I learnt something about myself that I now try to control, I am a bull in a china shop when I get going, I have amazing patience but it conflicts with my drive. So I often find myself trying to force the pace of a project because i want to get done and get onto the next one. Thats not the reason I started this hobby and I think one has to keep reminding oneself of that. So my advice to you is slow down a little. rome was not built in one day as they say. That way you will beat yourself up less.

3) Practice what you wish to do before you do it even on other material. That way you dont find yourself crying over spilt milk. I find I am supercautious with good wood and so often will test something in cheap 2x4 pine before i touch real wood. Even then i make mistakes.

4) Spend the time to make some jigs and fixtures. I have seen that the pros spend almost an equal time making sure the support or fixturing for a clamp up or a cut are in place before performing it.

5) Dont give up posting. Many of us right now live through you for one reason or another and by the way those of us that can relate to your experience are not laughing.

Best of luck with the rest of the project. :thumb:
 
rob, not rushing at all,........this is the first project Im taking so much care and trying to think everything out before I proceed.
The mistakes are just due to errors.
When I purchased the wood, I didnt realize having 1/2 inch short on width of something would mean having to cut another piece of lumber.
I cut one extra piece for each piece so far, but the rear legs, dont have any extra wood.
If I did, I would have just cut another one.


I ran over to the HD just now and picked up some small machine screws and hallelujah, the dewalt router is mounted on the ryobi table.
(bet ya both companies are saying right now, uh......our product was not meant to house or be housed a different label's product, we take no responsibility for damages)

This should be alot of fun, routing upside down!

Here goes nothing.
 
allen there is two types of bits for this operation bearing top and bearing bottom.. in your case i would have the pattern on top and have a a good look if your coming to the pattern properly,, so that would be a bearing top type of bit. and remeber the grain direction.. when putting them threw.
 
after I hooked up the router to the table, made sure its completely secure, and the bit sat right, I remembered to check through my stock, my older stock cause I was positive I had another piece of 8/4 somewhere. Sure enough, it was hidden under a pile of ash, so well even after I removed most of the boards, I still never saw it.
Too bad, but figured its good to have if I damage any other back legs, its just big enough to cut one more.

The router table worked out ok, a bit unnatural for me, but I carefully and slowly let the router do the work, held the piece down secure, made sure the rhino tape(what a great product) was fresh, and cut away.

On the 9th leg, I guess I had a moment, and I forced the pattern jumped, and boom, the bit ate a chunk into the leg. Destroyed, cant save it, its 8 inches up from bottom. Was my fault, I forgot to press and secure pattern on, just lifted it up, turned it over and went for it.
I have to go cut up that last piece now, no more rooom for errors, or the only chairs my wife are getting is from Raymour Flannigan, or maybe Target.
Its all fun, and I finally got to use that little router table.
Now dust control with that, havent quite figured that out yet.
I messed up some pics, not important, heres what can be seen, I shot how bad I cut some legs, wavy, on the rough cut with band saw.
Then after the router table, nice, smooth, beautiful.
 

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Well, as of now, I have 12 rear legs that are usable.
I shut down so I dont do anymore damage today.

(btw, the glue seems to be holding the cracked piece fine)

when IM done with these chairs, I mgoing to work on putting a new surface on the lower work table, the one that rolls under the stationary one, and cut in a router mounting plate.
 
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