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Strip built kayak - strips?

Leo Voisine

Leo Voisine

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East Freeetown, Massachusetts
I am getting myself ready to build a strip built kayak.

My first thought in making the strips is to take a flat sawn board - 3/4 thick and whatever wide I get - and cutting 1/4 thick strips from the side of the board. That will give me "quarter sawn" strips.

-IF- I start out with a quarter sawn board - then cut 1/4 thick strips from the side of the board - that will give me flat sawn strips

QUESTION -- does it matter that I use "flat sawn" or "quarter sawn" strips?
 
i don't think it would make that much of a difference. for myself, my only concern is that the strips be long enough to begin with. dreadfully embarrassing to come up short on one end or the other... :doh:
 
Leo,

I've done it both ways and didn't notice a difference in either looks or "workability". To me, the more important thing is to try and get full length pieces. At least from an aesthetic point of view, I always thought a scarf in the middle of the strip looked lousy.

The main thing I would pass along is to make sure you do a good job on putting a consistent, full cove and bead on the strips.
 
Leo, I haven't yet started my build but I did pick up the bead and cove bits. Interesting to me was meeting a guy in a self designed strip built hybrid kayak/canoe/pram........I'm not sure what to call it. But anyway he recommended using basswood instead of cedar. He claimed it was only 10% heavier but twice as strong. If you were to glass a finished boat and paint it the beauty of the cedar would be moot. He also said basswood was much easier to bend. Given his horn tooting for basswood and it's availability to me I plan on cutting and sawing some trees into planks for the project.
 
Leo Voisine said:
QUESTION -- does it matter that I use "flat sawn" or "quarter sawn" strips?
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Looks are the only thing that will change. There is no strength difference, the strength comes from the fiberglass. So just cut what ever looks best to your eye.


Paul Downes said:
.....If you were to glass a finished boat and paint it the beauty of the cedar would be moot.
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:eek::eek: Why would you put all that work into one and then paint it???? :dunno:

As for bead and cove, I chose to do rolling bevels on the deck of mine. Most people say after doing one that the bead and cove are not worth the extra effort. Of course some prefer them too, but I think most don't do it a second time. One of those things that looks better than it works maybe?
 
:eek::eek: Why would you put all that work into one and then paint it???? :dunno: As for bead and cove said:
Oh it will NOT be painted.

I have read other comments on the cove and bead too. One comment I read from a teacher of building these things is that it makes it a little easier for the newbie - ME.

I have also read about the strength being in the laminating of the fiberglass and resin - that makes a lot of sense.

One importand thing I am picking up on - it to use full langth strips. SO - I an gonna need at least 18 foor boards - to get the strips I need for a 17 foot kayak.

I will post on my progress - but I am SUPER slow and it is going to take me a year to do this.
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I would disagree with not using the bead and cove as it makes a nicer looking job in the end. I built my canoe in 94 out of yellow cedar and have all the materials cut and ready to go for my Kayak ( just need to find the time now). I liked the bead and cove as it made a nice trough to apply the glue into while joining the boards. Rememeber to wipe the extra glue off the squeezes out as it will save lots of time later. :thumb:Also pick the right time of year to do the glassing as I came into a hatching of small flies with my first time around and there are lots of little fly leggs in my first canoe.:eek: Just my 2 cents worth.
 
Drew,

If I am REALLY super fast - I might be ready by late October or early November. That would be perfect timing - not much for flies.

If I am the way I know I am - I will be ready about this time next year. Again, the timing would be really good, not much flies.

If fact - I don't know a bad time of year - for the little bugs.

I think the hot weather would be bad. I worked fiberglass once about 35 years ago. Too distant to really remember - but it was hot and sunny out. We did the job - but I was a lot younger then. I don't move as fast as I usta.

For me - the jury is out there on the cove and bead - I don't have any experience - but I will.
 
you may need boards that are longer than 18 ft for a 17 ft kayak. the 17 ft measurement is a straight line from bow to stern, you'll be going along a curve. best way to demonstrate this is if you have a 17 ft dia circle, to cover half the circumfrence, you're gonna need a board that is 26.5 ft (that's 26 ana haff feet larry), to cover half the circumfrence. a bit drastic, but it shows my point. what i would do, is measure along the widest part of the kayak, from bow to stern, and add 2 ft to that measurement.
 
Dan - thanks - great point.

I think though that only the outer circumference will need the length - as I get to the middle - the length of the boards will be shorter.

Still - I will need to start out with all long strips - and cut as needed.

I can lay out what I will need.

There sure are a lot of curves to bend around - both inside and outside curves - as well as side to side curves - that certainly does take added lengths.

I might be able to build a solid works model. That in itself would be a fun chalange. Hmmmmm - then maybe I could make the 3D model on the CNC machine. WOW - is this going to be a fun project.
 
Sadly you're so far away because we have a local source for clear Western Red Cedar in lengths up to 20'.

On one of the kayaks I made, I glued up a faux Native American design using both basswood and walnut strips and I didn't notice any great difference in the shaping, bending properties of the wood.

Make sure your strongback is both rigid and straight. Any error at this point will magnify itself many times over in the boat itself. The second or third time I set up to build a boat I used a 19" manufactured "I" beam that I picked up for a song from a local lumber yard. This was much, much stiffer then the homemade set up I had used previously.

Depending upon which type of epoxy you buy, it will have different operating temperatures.

Are you going to use staples or simply (which it's anything but) going to strap pieces tight together?
 
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Peter Lyon said:
Sadly you're so far away because we have a local source for clear Western Red Cedar in lengths up to 20'.

On one of the kayaks I made, I glued up a faux Native American design using both basswood and walnut strips and I didn't notice any great difference in the shaping, bending properties of the wood.

Make sure your strongback is both rigid and straight. Any error at this point will magnify itself many times over in the boat itself. The second or third time I set up to build a boat I used a 19" manufactured "I" beam that I picked up for a song from a local lumber yard. This was much, much stiffer then the homemade set up I had used previously.

Depending upon which type of epoxy you buy, it will have different operating temperatures.

Are you going to use staples or simply (which it's anything but) going to strap pieces tight together?
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Hey Peter - staples? I am not anywhere that point yet - I simply don't know. I am hoping to NOT use any sort of thing that makes a hole through the wood. I just don't know! Most likely I will need to, but I don't think I want to.

For now - I am learning as much as possible. I have order three books - two from Guillemot.

I will not start building until I have done some serious reading both in the books and on line in 3-4 forums.

At least for the first boat - I will likely follow what I am told to do. After I do at least one boat - I should at least know a tiny bit.
 
Paul Brubacher said:
Lee Valley actually sells router bits that are called canoe bits.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=30155&cat=1,46168,46174&ap=1

Do you ever have to taper the individual boards?
Or is each board full width?
If the boards are tapered, then they probably would not all be full length.
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Paul - yeah - I ordered a set of canoe bits - but not from Lee Valley

I ordered the Freud set from Amazon.com They have a 1/2 shank. Some people don't like Freud - but that is about my favorite brand. They were a lot more money than the Lee Valley.

Thank you
 
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one vote for the cove and bead cutters

for a couple of reasons.

1. The little trough created by the cove makes a dandy holder for the glue. It keeps it from running all over the place. Once you get a feel for how much glue to use, there gets to be very little if any squeeze out.

2. The fit you get is a lot neater than planing each strip by hand, which also speeds up the process of gluing those buggers together.

I built a Redbird by Ted Moores and he advocates the bead and cove cutters, for good reason. There is always the potential for the strips not fitting, regardless of how careful you are, but the extra assurance of the gaps not showing because of the interlacing of the cove and bead is worth it. It doesn't take that much longer to cut them, either.

My canoe, which is 18.5 feet long, took about 80 strips. I scarfed the long strips together so there would be NO butt joints in the canoe. A friend built one using butt joints in his, and (all modesty aside) mine looks much better with them. Be aware that all those scarf joints, maybe 60 or so, take a bit of time to do. OTOH, the ease of working with full-length strips makes up for some of that time.

I stapled the strips on my boat to the stations, and I have to confess I wish I would have learned how to put it together without the use of staples. It makes for a much neater presentation.

Altogether, it took me about 300 hours from start to finish, every night and weekend for six weeks. That time includes making the stations and strongback, putting together the form and leveling it, making the strips, fiberglassing, sanding and varnishing. It was without doubt the most fun I've ever had on any project. It does not include the many months I thought about it, though -- I built that thing many times in my mind's eye. The canoe weighs 52 lbs.

Bruce, in MN, my first post.
 
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