Birth of a shop - The Final Trimester

Sorry for not posting last night. I was plum wore out! :( :eek:

At least I got that west gable wall 'almost' done:

DSCN5160.jpg DSCN5162.jpg

All that's left is that one last board on the end. I didn't finish it last night since it had gotten dark and that last board needs to be cut to properly stradle the pier cap. I'd rather make those measurements and cuts when I can see well.

The rain that I was expecting yesterday has arrived today. So I guess I'll be working on electrical. Oh the joys of pulling romex...

- Marty -
 
every wire you pull gets you that much closer to being fully electricized!!!


Chris,

You're right. I'm just not looking forward to pulling more romex. The blisters on my hands from the first few thousand feet have finally healed! :rolleyes:

But I'll go get at it...as soon as I finish catching up here...;)

- Marty -
 
Glad to hear it. I have no experience at all with Cypress. Heck, I am not even sure that I have ever seen Cypress. It is an evergreen isn't it?

Frank,

Cypress is indeed an evergreen. And I'm not surprised you have no experience with it, since it's indigenous to the southern (mostly eastern) states here. One of the primary supplying states, (and the supplier for my siding) is Louisiana.

I don't know that Cypress has enough 'marketability', or unique properties aside from it's decay and insect resistance, to make it viable to export it north of the border. And you'd obviously pay a premium if it was.

- Marty -
 
marty,

i'm sure you covered this in your other thread on the shop. if so let me know and i can go and search for it. but i was curious if you'd be willing to give reasoning for going with 400 amps in the shop. i will be building my shop around the first of the year and i was planning on going with 200 amps. i know absolutely nothing about electrical so all this is tough for me. was it certain types of machinery that caused the decision? or maybe the idea of never needing to add more power later?

much thanks
chris
 
marty,

i'm sure you covered this in your other thread on the shop. if so let me know and i can go and search for it. but i was curious if you'd be willing to give reasoning for going with 400 amps in the shop. i will be building my shop around the first of the year and i was planning on going with 200 amps. i know absolutely nothing about electrical so all this is tough for me. was it certain types of machinery that caused the decision? or maybe the idea of never needing to add more power later?

much thanks
chris


Chris,

I never covered the 400 amp service decision in any detail in my other thread, so you didn't miss much. But, my decision was based on several factors.

Conditioning the air in the shop is very important to me, which should be obvious if you were following my suffering during the summer building the shop. It gets HOT here in the summer. To that end, I've had a rather large HVAC system installed. I'll be posting many more details of that system both later tonight and in the future. But the bottom line is that the HVAC alone requires 110 amps...60 amps for inside air handler, and 50 amps for the compressor outside.

In addition to the large draw by HVAC, there will be some substanital three phase draws by the tools in the shop. The converter alone doesn't draw much current, but when powering the machines, the draw will be non-trivial. When I'm working alone, this isn't enough to justify the additional power I've brought in. But long term, I see Denise and I working together in the shop which means there's a very real possibility of having more than one large tool operating simultanesouly.

Given the size of the shop, I'm putting in lots of (probably excessive) lighting and power circuits. I didn't want any problems if/when there are lots of lights and more than one major tool running.

Also factoring into my decision was the fact that there was NO COST difference betwen running 200 amp and 400 amp service into the shop. Well, no cost from the electric co-op. It obviously meant I had to run twice the service wire into the shop, and have two Square-D panels instead of one.

Oh, and of course, there's the issue of never having to worry about future growth requirements....;)

I'll be posting a lot more about electric tonigh and in the near future, since that's what today was spent working on. Please let me know if there are any additional questions I can answer or details I can provide.

Stay tuned...
- Marty -
 
Dust collection finally 'hooked up'...

Since the rain kept me inside all day, I thought it was time to 'hook up' my dust collection system. Here are a few shots of it in action:

DSCN5163.jpg DSCN5164.jpg

It's pretty efficient, and the power requirements are minimal... :D

Oh, and here's a shot of Denise's most recent addition to the shop:

DSCN5165.jpg

It seems our neighbor has moved on, deciding to leave their collection of cats behind. This one showed up a week or so ago, and decided to make our property it's home. Denise, being the cat lover that she is, and feeling bad for the cat, decided to put a dish of food out for it...ON THE FRONT PORCH OF THE SHOP! :eek:

She's announced that it's the official shop 'mouser'. And since it's "with kittens", there will probably be a herd of mousers soon. :rolleyes:

Now if only I could get the cat to understand that the slider is NOT IT'S PLAYGROUND!!! :eek:

- Marty -
 
marty,

thanks, great answers, as well as great reasons. i understand and agree with all of those. i am a firm believer in having excess just in case.

i am sure as you post more details i will find more questions. hopefully for your sake not too many.

i will be building my shop soon, and since i plan to use it for an actual woodworking business, which will also be coming soon, i think it may be in my best interest to go with more than 200 amps as well. especially since i plan to have some sort of hvac too, maybe not that aircraft carrier you just got installed but something :D

thanks again for the clarification.
chris

ps. i ain't no stranger to the heat either....nor the humidity!! it gets terrible down here as well!!! i'm right smack in the middle of baton rouge and new orleans
 
HVAC system...

I've shown a few quick shots of the ducting for the HVAC system, but thought some of you might be interested in more details. So here goes...

The system is a Five Ton Carrier heat pump for both heating and cooling. It's a new high efficiency, variable speed 14 seer Puron system. It's also the largest commercial system available without going to three-phase...(there's no way I was sharing my converter with the HVAC! :p )

As I mentioned in a post above, the inside air handler requires 60 amp service, and the outside compressor requires 50 amp service. Both of these figures are maximum draws, with the typical operating draw being no where near that. (At least I hope :rolleyes: )

The system incorporates a variable speed fan system, and does not have a typical thermostat. Instead, it has a 'control unit', where both temperature and humidity are user selectable.

The ducting is certainly not your typical residential installation:

DSCN5181.jpg DSCN5175.jpg DSCN5180.jpg

A 16" main trunk was run from the air handler down the length of the shop on the rear side of the attic. From this trunk, there are four 12" drops into the main area of the shop. These drops will terminate in 12" round air diffusers.

Here's a few shots of the air return:

DSCN5173.jpg DSCN5176.jpg

Instead of the typical air return in the ceiling somewhere, they "built" a return box in the corner near the finishing room. This box feeds a 24" duct that returns to the air handler up on the platform I built out on the trusses. I see two major advantages to this box that made it okay to give up such a large amount of floor space...it allows for very large filters to help control the dust returning to the air handler, and since the box is at ground level, servicing the filters will be considerably easier than if they were up in the ceiling somewhere. The engineer that deisgned the system said something about promoting better air flow and proper regulation of the temperature, but all I saw was easier and more frequent filter maintenance...:rolleyes:

Here's a shot of the ductwork feeding the finishing room:

DSCN5177.jpg

Once again, they're opted for a 12" duct feeding a 12" circular air diffuser. In addition, there will be an electrically controlled damper installed prior to the drop. The damper hasn't come in yet, which is why you see no flex duct coming down into the room. This damper will be controlled by a switch on the wall outside the finishing room. When required, (eg. spraying a finish) I can flip the switch which will close the damper and stop all air flow into the room. I can then flip another switch which will power up the explosion proof fan in the wall. This fan will draw air through the filters I'll be mounting in the double doors feeding the room, thus providing an additional layer of filteration to help further reduce airborn dust from the shop from entering the room. It's a 'total loss' system, but maintaining a clean environment for spraying is important. I may not use it much, but when I need to, it will be there.

'Normal' 6" x 12" residential registers were installed in both the kitchenette and bathrooms:

DSCN5178.jpg

They did something different in the office as well:

DSCN5179.jpg

Since I plan to have computers, printers, etc., in the office they've installed both a 12" drop which will terminate into a 12" circular diffuser, as well as a seperate 12" return. This will allow me to install a sweep on the bottom of the office door, keeping the room effectively sealed from the dust in the shop, and yet prevent it from becoming 'pressurized". The air return is also adjustable with a damper installed up in the attic.



I posted a picture of the air handler earlier, but didn't get a shot of the outside compressor, but I will when the rain subsides.



So, there you have it. HVAC done "Marty Style". Overkill? Of course! ;)

On to today's electrical...after I give my fingers a break from all this typing...
- Marty -
 
marty,

thanks, great answers, as well as great reasons. i understand and agree with all of those. i am a firm believer in having excess just in case.

i am sure as you post more details i will find more questions. hopefully for your sake not too many.

i will be building my shop soon, and since i plan to use it for an actual woodworking business, which will also be coming soon, i think it may be in my best interest to go with more than 200 amps as well. especially since i plan to have some sort of hvac too, maybe not that aircraft carrier you just got installed but something :D

thanks again for the clarification.
chris

ps. i ain't no stranger to the heat either....nor the humidity!! it gets terrible down here as well!!! i'm right smack in the middle of baton rouge and new orleans


Chris,

One thing to consider regarding the service you bring in is whether or not you'll be willing and/or able to do the work yourself. I might not have been able to afford having an electrician run the service in, since it would have been expensive! It was actually quite a bit of additional work to run the two sets of 4/0 service cables into the shop.

But, it you can afford it, my opinion would be to go for it!

By the way, good luck with the new shop and business. Keep us informed as you progress! ;)

- Marty -

P.S. I lived in Biloxi when I was in the service, and spent a load of time on my bike running back and forth to the Bayou. I know all too well that you're accustomed to the heat...and HUMIDITY! :eek:
 
Marty, are you sure that return isn't actually a corner fireplace???? Man, that's hugh! Of course it probably feels right at home in your shop.:D Jim.


Jim,

You're not kidding! When they told me what that had planned, I was worried about the space they'd be taking up. I'm now wondering where I'll have room for the woodstove I had planned...:confused:

But hey, if it helps keep me cool in the summers, it'll be worth the footprint! ;)

- Marty -
 
Electrical...so far...

Ok, with the HVAC system detailed, it's time to show what I've done so far and today on the electrical.

Before I show pictures, let me give you all a brief description of the major components and circuits of the electrical system:

Distribution Panels: 2 - Square D QO 200 Amp/32 slot boxes
I bought these as "Valu-packs" from the borg. They included thebox, cover, main breaker, and a 'starter set' of ten 20 amp breakers.

Lighting Circuits:
Main Shop Area:
Three banks of four fixtures each. Each fixture is an 8' dual bulb T12 High Output fixture.
Each bank is on its own seperate independantly switched 20 amp circuit.

Finishing Room:
Two 8' dual bulb T12 High Output fixtures, on the same dedicated 20 amp circuit

Kitchen:
Single 4' dual bulb regular T12 fixture

Bath:
Single incandescent bulb over vanity, with seperate switched exhaust fan in ceiling

Office:
Single 4' dual bulb regular T12 fixture

Attic:
Seven 60 Watt incandescent fixtures along truss upper chord

(Kitchen, bath, office and attic share a 20 amp circuit for lighting)

Front Porch:
Dual 60 watt incandescent carriage lights on either side of front doors
Dual ceiling fans with 60 watt incandescent light kits​
In the next day or two I'll be adding three motion detector flood light fixtures, one over the haymow door, one centered on the rear of the shop, and one on the north west corner of the shop.

In addition, I'll be adding task lighting along the wall on both the front and rear of the shop. These tasks light will be for bench work on the front, and for tool lighting on the rear wall. Since I'm not sure exactly where things will be, I'll be 'roughing in' these light circuits, running the romex, wiring the switches, but leaving coils of romex up in the attic until I get things into the shop.

Once the motion flood and task lighting fixtures are in, I'll be done with lighting.

Power Outlets:

Main Shop area:
Rear wall:
Five duplex boxes (dual receptacles, 20 outlets total) on 6'-8' centers, on a dedicated 30 amp circuit

Front Wall:
Nine duplex boxes (single receptacles, 18 outlets total) on 4' centers, on a dedicated 30 amp circuit
(final leg of this circuit feeds an outdoor outlet box on front porch)
**This circuit and all outlets is what I put in today**

Ceiling:
Two duplex boxes fed by a dedicated 30 amp circuit "for future use"​
Finishing Room:
Duplex box with two receptacles (four outlets) on 30 amp circuit

Kitchen Area:
Duplex box with two receptacles (four outlets) on 30 amp circuit

West Outdoor Outlet:
Final leg of finishing room/kitchen circuit feeds outdoor box below bathroom window

Office:
Three duplex boxes, dual receptacles (12 oulets), and three single boxes, single receptacles (two outlets each), all on a dedicated 20 amp circuit.

Attic:
Three single boxes, single receptacles (2 outlets), with final leg feeding (future) hot water heater, all on dedicated 30 amp circuit​

I still need to install the outlets in the office, and the outdoor outlets on the west and east gable walls. With those complete, I'll be done with outlets.

There's also a 20 amp circuit that feeds the garage door opener, as well as an outdoor outlet next to the garage door, and the motion detector floods above the haymow.


I think that about covers it. Well, at least until I go back out there tomorrow and decide to add more circuits...:rolleyes:

Here are some shots showiing only SOME of the supplies I've consumed to date:

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Here's the front and rear wall 30 amp circuit outlets:

DSCN5187.jpg DSCN5068.jpg

Notice the orange, 10/2, romex for the 30 amp circuit. I also used 20 amp outlets, but you can't see them in these shos.

Here's the main light switch 'bank' next to the front door:

DSCN5184.jpg

The three switches with red tabs are 20 amp switches, one for each bank of main lights. The two with blue tabs are 15 amp switches, one for the porch lights, the other for the porch fans/lights.

Here's the jig I've used on every switch and outlet in the shop:

DSCN5182.jpg

It sets the bottom of the boxes at 50" from the bottom plate of the wall. It's notched on the front to accomodate the lower strap of a handi-box (to allow me to swing a hammer to set the spike). And it's notched on the rear to go around wires that might be in the wall in the way.

Here are a couple of shots showing the "romex spaghetti" I have running around the shop:

DSCN5185.jpg DSCN5190.jpg

And finally, here's the first of the two panels I'm quickly filling up:

DSCN5189.jpg

You'll notice on the panel on the left that I have the cover mounted next to the panel itself. I do this so I can label every slot as I place the breakers. When I install a breaker/circuit, I simply open the door of the cover and write what's where, then close the door. The cover stays out of the way, yet readily accessible so I don't loose track of what's going on.

The second box will be used for tools and for the two large HVAC circuits, so I have it covered up...for now.


Two other things to note that are in the pictures...I've labelled every piece of romex at least every eight feet! And I've used romex 'hold-downs' in an attempt to keep the spaghetti as managable as possible.

Well, there you have it. Wiring "Marty Style"...at least what I have done so far. I want to get it all done so I can get started on the ceilings and walls. Oh wait, I still have to finish the siding. Oh wait, I still have to finish the soffit and fascia on the east gable wall.

Dang, I better get busy, huh? :rolleyes:

Thanks for following...
- Marty -
 
thanks for the electrical update marty! lookin` good, now it`s just about fun time the nice easy thin stuff for the equipment:eek: .....tod
 
Dang, I better get busy, huh? :rolleyes:

Thanks for following...
- Marty -

yeah as if you've been standing around or something.

marty your ability to git r done never ceases to amaze me. you're doing a great job on that electrical. very organized as usual. I've seen pros do jobs that could not even come close to looking that good. way to go!!

take care
chris
 
Marty, your almost there! Electrical looks good. One thing that I didn't catch until I saw the latest picture for the panel boxes, is there was some discussion on SMC a while back that most locals will let you mount the boxes "upside down" so the main braker is at the bottom. this might have been advantageous for your situation. I have the same/similar Square D box (note the singular:D) and my feeder lines come into the top, so the breaker on top was fine for me. Most of my other wires feed out from the side, with a few on top. The sides got very full, and I doubt that I would have had enough room if my feeder lines had to snake around the sides as yours had to do. Well, too late now anyway.
And your 5 light switches inside the main door. I guess I haven't seen cover plates with more than 4. Were you able to find 5 gang plates? Or are you going to build your own custom ones????:D I laugh a little, but I couldn't find a 4 gang blank for one of my make shift junction boxes, so cut 2 2gang ones down to fit! Keep it up!! Jim.
 
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